Epoxy, to make sure I am on the right track

[ToddMR]

Ok I have been looking through the forums today because I am not having too much luck since I have been using epoxy for acrylic tube glue ups. I have used both epoxy 5 minute Loctite from Lowes and now two tubes I bought from Mony. I mix equal amounts and roll the tube into the glue and slide into the blank. The wood ones seem to hold good enough and I even glue up in the house and let the blanks cure over night. Either while I am milling the blanks or assembling, the tubes end up pushing out. Not easily, but with some force they start moving out. When feeling the tubes they are still tacky.

I just want to make sure I am on the right track here. Should I try to mix for a longer period of time or something? I like epoxy due to not having issues with it activating on me like CA can if certain things happen, like the blanks being warm from drilling etc. I haven't had the tubes slip out in wood blanks yet. I read through the forums and see to check the date of the epoxy and about mixing it. I searched for some tips on using it but it was kind of overwhelming with all the results I got, so I apologize in advance if this has been addressed 100 times already. :biggrin:

 

[aggromere]

I have had some of the same experience. I almost always use medium or thick ca when gluing tubes in all materials and have never had an issue.

When I have used epoxy I have had a few tubes move or push out - when I am assembling the pen, or turning it. Not just letting it dry. I'm kind of messy and I think any stray epoxy that gets into the tube is much harder to clear out than CA.

But I think a lot of people prefer the epoxy, that's why I give it a try once in a while.

 

[terryf]

Todd
I use epoxy adhesive on all my pens, in fact on almost everything I want to glue and I have found two reason it doesnt set. Either its too much hardener or not properly mixed.

Use a little bit less hardener rather than too much and mix for at least 25 - 30 seconds. I know when mine is ready cos it turns an almost creamy white. (Pratleys)

 

[terryf]

btw, whats the temp like this time of year in Ohio. Can also play a role especially if the epoxy is cold as it wont mix properly.

 

[ToddMR]

btw, whats the temp like this time of year in Ohio. Can also play a role especially if the epoxy is cold as it wont mix properly.

Thanks Terry. Yeah I thought about that since we are now hitting into the 30's at night. That is why I glue it up in the house where it is about 65-70 degrees and let them sit there until I am ready to mill/turn. I keep the epoxy inside as well. I do get that cloud/pearl white and the nice smell lol. I normally do a line of both bottles, so instead you recommend trying a little less of the hardener than the other. I can give it a try. I don't have too many issues when using CA just when I do it would be far less an issue with epoxy. Thanks for the tips!

 

[MatthewZS]

I've had epoxy let go when the piece it's in gets heated up.

However now I use the w part 5 minute epoxy that comes in the syringe like container where the two halves are fastened together where when you push the plunger both parts come out equally. It makes it easier to make sure I've gotten the right amount of each.

 

[moke]

Todd,
I have exactly the same set of experiences you have. I too, was wondering about the temperture, I am in Iowa, but my garage never gets colder than 45.
With epoxy I have to admit, it is sure easier and less stressful to get the tubes in. I have drilled tubes out of more than blank that "stuck" part way out with CA.
Mike

 

[snyiper]

Well when epoxy wont work because the gap is a bit big I use Gorillia glue or Sumo Glue, that fills any gaps.

 

[terryf]

Todd,
I have exactly the same set of experiences you have. I too, was wondering about the temperture, I am in Iowa, but my garage never gets colder than 45.
With epoxy I have to admit, it is sure easier and less stressful to get the tubes in. I have drilled tubes out of more than blank that "stuck" part way out with CA.
Mike

45 is on the cold side. You will get much better results at 70+.

 

[LEAP]

Well when epoxy wont work because the gap is a bit big I use Gorillia glue or Sumo Glue, that fills any gaps.

Ive never tried the gorilla glue with plastics, Does it work?

 

[Boz]

+1 on the mixing time. You must get it well mixed or it will not work as well as it should. I only use epoxy and have only had one tube come out and that was on Ebony wood. I use the 15 min varity and like the xtra working time when I am gluing up more than one blank. Also with the longer working time you can mix it for a minute or so and still have enough time to glue. I let all of them sit for 24 hours before triming and turning.

 

[JimMc7]

Does your "leftover" epoxy harden? If not, then suspect what an earlier poster said that you've used too much hardener. If leftover is hard, then only thing I can think of is heat build-up in your milling or sanding steps. Epoxy is more heat resistant than CA in my experience but it can soften with high heat.

The way I mix Monty's epoxy is to cut the nozzle tip just above the cap retaining ring -- same spot on both resin & hardener. I mix by just counting (usually to 15 or 20) while squeezing the resin -- then count 1 less squeezing the hardener. I doubt I mix more than 20 or 30 seconds. I store both resin & hardener tip down so material comes out right at the start of delivery counting. Not very scientific but no problems with Monty's epoxy curing using this simple technique.

 

[ToddMR]

Yeah I figured it was just some tweaking on my end needing to be done. Thank you to everyone for helping me out here. I have some I will try to glue up tonight and let you all know how it works out. I will check the cardboard I use to put the glue on and make sure it is hardened as well.

 

[Jerryconn]

This may seem a bit extreme but I went and brought a scale from HF. I then use the little condiment cups from Long John Silvers ( every once and a while a few happen to fall into my pocket .....actually I know the manager at one and they let me have a few). They are the perfect size for mixing up enough epoxy for a couple of pens. I measure the amount of each part so I get accurate amounts and mix well. I have not had a problem since I started measuring.

 

[jttheclockman]

I use epoxy all the time both in turning and flat work. I use System3 epoxy which you can get at most woodworking stores. The thing I sugest is to not only apply epoxy to the tube but also to the inside of the blank which I do and never had anything let go. I also let cure for 24 hours. As mentioned you can check the leftover on the cardboard and see what it feels like. It will be tacky but needs to be hardened. I use my eye for mixing. If you put your bead down next to each other you can see equal parts. Good luck. by the way I fill the tubes with playdough and epoxy will not get inside.

 

[mach9]

I've been using the Loctite 5 minute from Lowes and have been satisfied so far. No problems. I do scuff the outside of my tubes with sandpaper to give the epoxy a little bite.

 

[thetalbott4]

I've never had a problem with the epoxy from monty. I always just "eyeball" the amounts in the 2 puddles side by side, mix with a toothpick thoroughly, use the toothpick to spread the epoxy inside the blank from both ends to ensure complete internal coverage, then use the toothpick to spread a coat over the tube (which I previously sanded with 60 or 80 grit), then insert the tube. You will get some waste epoxy pushed out the end of the blank, but I have NEVER had a failure this way. By the way, I use sheet wax to seal my tube ends to keep all the excess epoxy out.

 

[thewishman]

I always get the tops mixed up when both tubes have the same color tops. (Which causes the soft bottle to set up and harden over time.) I like the Loctite brand because the tops match the label colors.

It does seem to take longer to cure in the winter months, temp and lower humidity both seem to change the process.

 

[Lenny]

Well when epoxy wont work because the gap is a bit big I use Gorillia glue or Sumo Glue, that fills any gaps.

Ive never tried the gorilla glue with plastics, Does it work?

Yes, just remember to moisten the blank with a little water first.

 

[Lenny]

The only time I had a problem with epoxy is when I tried to use an old tube that had gone bad.
I usually wait at least 30 mins. to an hour before turning. Use play dough or a slice of potato in one end of the tube to keep the inside of the tube clean.

 

[witz1976]

I love Monty's CA, but the epoxy he sells sets up way to quick for me at least. I also like to glue up 10 - 20 blanks at a time so I switched to the loctite 60 minute set, let it sit over night next to my wood stove (love winter time for this:biggrin all set by morning.

 

[chris63]

had same problem with epoxy , used ca glue with no problem but cure time is fast. so lately been using Sumo glue. hard to get out of container due to viscosity but use stick to put on tube, dont need much works great and have longer glue time ...

 

[OOPS]

try this

had same problem with epoxy , used ca glue with no problem but cure time is fast. so lately been using Sumo glue. hard to get out of container due to viscosity but use stick to put on tube, dont need much works great and have longer glue time ...

I had the same problems with Sumo, it seemed like you needed vice grips to get the glue out of the bottle. I had cut open the top just as instructed on the package. After getting red in the face from squeezing one too many times, I decided to cut the top just below where the instructions suggested. Problem solved! The glue comes out easily and I am happy with the results. If you want to get the glue to come out faster upon opening, rest the bottle on its side between uses, or turn on its side just before use. You will notice on the bottle that there is a "flat" side just for this purpose.

Hope this helps.

 

[ToddMR]

Ok looks like it was my mixing time. I mixed it up until I counted to 30 glued up the tubes, came back an hour later and the left over on the outside of the blank and the cardboard glue board were dry and hard. Not tacky at all. So tonight I will mill them and start turning and see what happens. Thanks for all the help everyone!

 

[workinforwood]

I think all those epoxies are great. I generally use the Loctite. The reason it's letting go is because you are heating up the tubes too much! Perhaps there is some gunk in the tubes, like paint residue, or glue on your mill rod. The rod rubbing on the tube is heating up and causing the glue to temporarily go soft. This same thing will happen with CA glue, gorilla glue and wood glue. Epoxy is in my opinion the best way to glue acrylics to a tube. Make sure you clean your mill rod and the tube has nothing in it. Trim your blanks close to the tubes before you use the mill. The mill is for squaring the blank, not for removing an inch of material off the ends. The less time the mill rod is in the tube, the less chance of generating too much heat and the longer the mill head will stay sharp.

 

[philirons]

Anaerobic

Hi,
If I am breaking the rules with this post please let me know. If I have I apologise.
Has anyone tried an anaerobic glue. I am the agent for the dns Twister pens from Germany and have been making the pens as well and use this glue without any problems. There's no mixing involved, it won't glue wood to wood though.
This is how it is described in the dns pen brochure
The new dns-PenGlue is an anaerobic glue. This means that when the glue is
in contact with metal it will harden best under conditions where no oxygen is
present. In our case the cylinder hole fitted with the brass tube results in low
oxygen levels and the tight fit of these two parts easily makes the contact to
metal. The reaction time of the glue is dependent on the metal involved. Brass is a very active metal, the glue hardens quickly, whereas stainless steel, a rather inactive metal, requires more time to harden. The main advantage of the glue is the increased stability of the glue after hardening, as compared to other glues used in woodturning. Another advantage is a safety issue, the glue will not stick or glue the fingers together, nor will it damage the eyes. Surplus glue can easily be wiped away with a clean, dry cloth, even after several minutes.
Cheers
Phil

 

[snyiper]

The trick I use with Gorilla or the Sumo glue besides wetting as Lenny pointed out is unscrew the caps. I use wood handled cotton swabs for gun cleaning use the wood end get some glue on it and smear on the roughed up tubes. I then screw the top on the bottle and let it set up in the blank, no more straining to get the glue out! I have used this on wood, leather, plastic and corian with good results any faliure in the glue ups were my doing.

 

[terryf]

Ok looks like it was my mixing time. I mixed it up until I counted to 30 glued up the tubes, came back an hour later and the left over on the outside of the blank and the cardboard glue board were dry and hard. Not tacky at all. So tonight I will mill them and start turning and see what happens. Thanks for all the help everyone!

Glad you got sorted Todd :biggrin:

 

[paramount Pen]

To keep glue out of tubes

I have had some of the same experience. I almost always use medium or thick ca when gluing tubes in all materials and have never had an issue.

When I have used epoxy I have had a few tubes move or push out - when I am assembling the pen, or turning it. Not just letting it dry. I'm kind of messy and I think any stray epoxy that gets into the tube is much harder to clear out than CA.

But I think a lot of people prefer the epoxy, that's why I give it a try once in a while.

I know this doesn't answer the main question but thought it might fit here.
I use the strips of fun tack from wal-mart to keep glue out of the tubes. Just push the end of the tube on the fun tack and it seals it so no glue gets in.