drewdin
Member
I find myself getting stuck to everything when I use CA to glue the blanks after I drill them. The guy at woodcraft told me to use epoxy instead of CA. What do you guys use and why?
Thanks!
Thanks!
Epoxy or CA when gluing the blanks?
- Thread starter drewdin
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pianomanpj
Member
I use five-minute epoxy when I glue my tubes. That gives me plenty of work time, but short enough that I can start turning soon after.
Also, if I'm doing laser inlays, I'll color my epoxy with a few drops of Testor's black enamel paint in case its seen through the cracks or squeezes out between the parts. NOTE: I color the resin BEFORE I add the hardener. Five-minute epoxy has a short enough working time as it is!
Also, if I'm doing laser inlays, I'll color my epoxy with a few drops of Testor's black enamel paint in case its seen through the cracks or squeezes out between the parts. NOTE: I color the resin BEFORE I add the hardener. Five-minute epoxy has a short enough working time as it is!
nativewooder
Member
I'm retired now, but back when I made pens, I would prepare 10 or 20 blanks for the same kit, and I would use epoxy. At the time I had some slow-cure epoxy that I can't find any more. But 30 minute epoxy does fine. CA is asking for trouble.
monophoto
Member
I prefer polyurethane glue (eg, Gorilla glue or one of its clones).
It doesn't have to be mixed like epoxy, and it does a better job of filling any gaps or irregularities between the hole in the blank and the tube.
The downside is that curing takes time (I generally wait overnight) and moisture - I just run a little water through the hole in the blank to moisten the wood. Also, it expands as it cures, and the expansion can move the tube out of the hole. There are several tricks to keep that from happening - a clamp certainly works, but you can also wrap a rubber band or a length of painter's tape across the end of the blank to prevent movement.
Yes, polyurethane glue is messy to use, but so is epoxy. And it's amazing that it seems to be totally impossible to use CA without getting it on your hands.
It doesn't have to be mixed like epoxy, and it does a better job of filling any gaps or irregularities between the hole in the blank and the tube.
The downside is that curing takes time (I generally wait overnight) and moisture - I just run a little water through the hole in the blank to moisten the wood. Also, it expands as it cures, and the expansion can move the tube out of the hole. There are several tricks to keep that from happening - a clamp certainly works, but you can also wrap a rubber band or a length of painter's tape across the end of the blank to prevent movement.
Yes, polyurethane glue is messy to use, but so is epoxy. And it's amazing that it seems to be totally impossible to use CA without getting it on your hands.
Dave Turner
Member
I'm also a 5-minute epoxy fan. I started out using CA, but after a few tubes became loose after gluing and a few assembly mishaps with tubes only halfway in, I started looking for an alternative. 5-minute epoxy is simple and I can start turning after 20-30 minutes (although I usually wait an hour or two). I stock up on the Harbor Freight epoxy when it's on sale. The small tube size makes it very convenient for me since I don't do a lot of pens at one time. As was said above, it's also easy to mix a few drops of acrylic paint in with the epoxy to color it, if needed.
I coat epoxy on the inside of the hole with the plastic handle of a cheap artist paint brush and also coat the outside of the brass tube before inserting the tube with a back and forth twisting as well as in and out pumping motion. I plug the tube ends with dental wax to keep the epoxy out.
If I have a hole that's too large for the tube, I'll use Gorilla Glue, since this will foam up to fill all that excess space. You have to be sure to wet down your blank hole before gluing to activate it.
I coat epoxy on the inside of the hole with the plastic handle of a cheap artist paint brush and also coat the outside of the brass tube before inserting the tube with a back and forth twisting as well as in and out pumping motion. I plug the tube ends with dental wax to keep the epoxy out.
If I have a hole that's too large for the tube, I'll use Gorilla Glue, since this will foam up to fill all that excess space. You have to be sure to wet down your blank hole before gluing to activate it.
Dan Masshardt
Member
Epoxy - preferably 15 mom for working time but 5 is fine too.
Great bond. Great gap filling.
Great bond. Great gap filling.
monophoto
Member
OK, but be careful to check the labels - some of the HF epoxy has a 90 second working time that is entirely too fast for most practical uses.
turncrazy43
Member
If you are using acrylic blanks and have to paint the insides of the blanks, then epoxy is the way to go. It will not remove the paint from the blank and will turn out better in the end. CA will remove the paint from inside the blank. I use epoxy (5 min.) even on wood blanks. It does a good job for me. I do wait over night to turn after gluing in the tubes before turning. That way the epoxy has more fully cured.
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Everyday I'm vertical is a great day
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Everyday I'm vertical is a great day
Skie_M
Member
I've never used anything but CA when gluing up...
I buy my superglue at Harbor Freight.
I've been told that the special CA glue for pens sold by PSI and some other places has a rubber component that will help keep it from releasing on acrylic blanks, but I found that it's easy enough for me to just CA glue it again if for some reason it came loose on me while turning.
I spread a liberal coat on the roughed brass tube and then insert right away with a twisting motion back and forth ONLY ONE TIME before flipping the blank and pressing the tube all the way in against the table (paper towels on table surface, though I'm thinking of using a sheet of wax paper, as it would be re-usable). Then I wipe off any excess superglue.
If I find superglue on my hands, I just wipe away excess with a paper towel and then reach for some 220 grit sandpaper .... takes the hardened glue off without scratching up my skin.
Now, when I'm putting together a tool handle or putting a loose handle back on something, it's time for epoxy.
I buy my superglue at Harbor Freight.
I've been told that the special CA glue for pens sold by PSI and some other places has a rubber component that will help keep it from releasing on acrylic blanks, but I found that it's easy enough for me to just CA glue it again if for some reason it came loose on me while turning.
I spread a liberal coat on the roughed brass tube and then insert right away with a twisting motion back and forth ONLY ONE TIME before flipping the blank and pressing the tube all the way in against the table (paper towels on table surface, though I'm thinking of using a sheet of wax paper, as it would be re-usable). Then I wipe off any excess superglue.
If I find superglue on my hands, I just wipe away excess with a paper towel and then reach for some 220 grit sandpaper .... takes the hardened glue off without scratching up my skin.
Now, when I'm putting together a tool handle or putting a loose handle back on something, it's time for epoxy.
drewdin
Member
Looks like no votes for CA! Ill look into the 5 min epoxy today. Is there a brand or type anyone prefers?
triw51
Member
I use both and when I use epoxy I use a longer time 20 0r 30 min. I have a friend who works on copiers and he gave me a container of used toner. I mix a pinch of that to color my epoxy instead of paint. I usually will turn them the next day of so.
If I need to turn that day I use thick CA. I paint the inside of the tube with a layer and then spread some on the roughened tube and insert with a twisting motion. One note I do seal the ends of the tube with wax.
If I need to turn that day I use thick CA. I paint the inside of the tube with a layer and then spread some on the roughened tube and insert with a twisting motion. One note I do seal the ends of the tube with wax.
thewishman
Member
CA if I'm in a hurry, epoxy otherwise. Both work well.
Personally, I'm a CA fan when it comes to gluing tubes although I rarely use CA for finishing. I do have a few hints & tips to help avoid early setup, tube releasing & sticky fingers.
1. Use good quality glue. I've tried most of the available brands and have pretty much settled on the FastCap 2P-10 glue. It has a longer shelf time and flows better than most other types. You can buy it directly from FastCap or on Amazon, but I get mine from Mark Rawlings (Swagopenturner). He usually has some available for sale or trade.
2. Clean the drilled hole using dry compressed air, don't blow it out yourself - your breath moisture is a CA accelerant. Also let the freshly drilled blank set for a few minutes before gluing. Even slow drilling will heat the inside of the blank somewhat which is also an accelerant.
3. Test fit the drilled hole before gluing. You don't want a large gap, but you don't want it too snug either. If the tube doesn't slide in easily when it's dry, you'll likely have problems when it's covered with glue. Redrill with a bit that's 0.5mm to 1/32" larger if the hole is too small.
4. I mostly use medium CA glue, but I switch to thick when the humidity is up to get a little more working time. I make my own insertion tools from 1/2" delrin rod because I didn't like the tapers on the commercial tools (especially for 7mm and 8mm tubes).
5. I use a generous amount of glue, applying it all around the tube, then insert it into the blank using a twisting and in-out motion to coat the inside of the blank. Then I let it set at least overnight for good curing.
Personally, I don't have a problem with CA glue removing the paint from inside back-painted acrylic blanks. I use acrylic spray paint to coat the inside of my blanks and then let that cure for at least 2 days prior to gluing. The paint definitely needs to be fully cured, not just dry, when using CA glue.
Check out this video from Curtis Seebeck (mesquiteman) - it's the slickest CA-application technique that I've ever seen. So far, I haven't been able to duplicate it consistently, but I'm trying. The entire video is well worth watching, but you can skip ahead to about the 10:20 mark to watch him glue in the tube:
Mesquiteman on YouTube
As with all pen turning techniques, just keep experimenting until you find what works best for you.
Edgar
1. Use good quality glue. I've tried most of the available brands and have pretty much settled on the FastCap 2P-10 glue. It has a longer shelf time and flows better than most other types. You can buy it directly from FastCap or on Amazon, but I get mine from Mark Rawlings (Swagopenturner). He usually has some available for sale or trade.
2. Clean the drilled hole using dry compressed air, don't blow it out yourself - your breath moisture is a CA accelerant. Also let the freshly drilled blank set for a few minutes before gluing. Even slow drilling will heat the inside of the blank somewhat which is also an accelerant.
3. Test fit the drilled hole before gluing. You don't want a large gap, but you don't want it too snug either. If the tube doesn't slide in easily when it's dry, you'll likely have problems when it's covered with glue. Redrill with a bit that's 0.5mm to 1/32" larger if the hole is too small.
4. I mostly use medium CA glue, but I switch to thick when the humidity is up to get a little more working time. I make my own insertion tools from 1/2" delrin rod because I didn't like the tapers on the commercial tools (especially for 7mm and 8mm tubes).
5. I use a generous amount of glue, applying it all around the tube, then insert it into the blank using a twisting and in-out motion to coat the inside of the blank. Then I let it set at least overnight for good curing.
Personally, I don't have a problem with CA glue removing the paint from inside back-painted acrylic blanks. I use acrylic spray paint to coat the inside of my blanks and then let that cure for at least 2 days prior to gluing. The paint definitely needs to be fully cured, not just dry, when using CA glue.
Check out this video from Curtis Seebeck (mesquiteman) - it's the slickest CA-application technique that I've ever seen. So far, I haven't been able to duplicate it consistently, but I'm trying. The entire video is well worth watching, but you can skip ahead to about the 10:20 mark to watch him glue in the tube:
Mesquiteman on YouTube
As with all pen turning techniques, just keep experimenting until you find what works best for you.
Edgar
MTViper
Member
I have used all 3 things mentioned here. If I'm in a hurry, I'll use CA - usually Gorilla Glue brand. I've found it's pretty good quality and doesn't go bad as quickly as other brands. I only use CA on wood though.
I like Barrel Bond from Woodcraft for my epoxy. It's a 5 minute open time, but it also expands like Gorilla Glue to fill any gaps between the tube and blank. I've never had a glue failure with BB. You can work with it in 20 minutes, but my habit is normally to prep a bunch of blanks today and turn them tomorrow so it's nice and set.
I quit using Gorilla Glue (poly) because of the expansion issues. It's great glue, but can leave you with some real problems if you're not careful.
I like Barrel Bond from Woodcraft for my epoxy. It's a 5 minute open time, but it also expands like Gorilla Glue to fill any gaps between the tube and blank. I've never had a glue failure with BB. You can work with it in 20 minutes, but my habit is normally to prep a bunch of blanks today and turn them tomorrow so it's nice and set.
I quit using Gorilla Glue (poly) because of the expansion issues. It's great glue, but can leave you with some real problems if you're not careful.
drewdin
Member
I used Titebond Polyurethane Glue yesterday, but it foams when its curing. I won't know how easy it is to remove until I square the blanks later today. I have only been making wood pens, nothing acrylic yet. I also tried medium CA which give me a few more seconds and is less messy than thin CA. Thanks for the tips
WriteON
Member
CA for me all the time. I wear quality rubber gloves. Not the ones from Costco as the CA sticks to them. I do the gluing over a piece of cardboard. CA is messy. Take your time when working with it. I just started plugging the brass tube ends with a piece of dental baseplate wax.
Charlie_W
Member
Only 5min. epoxy for all blanks. Clear drying epoxy..not yellow.
I use CA EXCLUSIVELY. I decided that what little time I get in the shop has to be maximized. So I have just honed my skills at gluing things up quickly. The only place this ever bites me when working with metal segments. CA no like heat.
IF I get a little glue on my hands... I just take it off with the belt/disc sander.....when it is turned off of course.
IF I get a little glue on my hands... I just take it off with the belt/disc sander.....when it is turned off of course.
mmayo
Member
I used HF glue for quite a number of projects until I bought the two bottle version of epoxy glue from CSUSA and never looked back. No tubes to roll, no stuck caps, no problems getting a tiny amount out or a lot. Very decent working time. I get 4 cedar plugs or 4-5 pen tubes before it starts to get too viscous. This stuff hardens very nicely in 20-30 minutes, enough to drill and turn.
Sabaharr
Member
Boy this question is a bit of a sticky wicket (sorry, couldn't help it).I use to use CA but it got everywhere and sometimes I couldn't even get the tube all the way in before it set leaving me with a ruined blank. I use 5 minute epoxy exclusively now but I also plug both ends of the tube with a sheet of dental wax before insertion. That way I can push some epoxy ahead of the tube to fill gaps and not get any inside of the tube. Once the end is prepped the wax pushes right out and you have a clean tube inside. On Ebay the wax is $7 for a box that should last a few years and is worth the added step not to have to dig adhesive out of the tube.
efrulla
Member
I use Medium CA
I use medium CA to glue my tubes and have not had any issues so far. I wear disposable gloves and when I am done they truly are disposable.:biggrin:
I use medium CA to glue my tubes and have not had any issues so far. I wear disposable gloves and when I am done they truly are disposable.:biggrin:
sbwertz
Member
I use a cap from an old CA bottle for an insertion tool
mecompco
Member
I quickly gave up on the CA after getting tubes stuck half-way in and other annoyances. I like the working time of the 5 min epoxy and it seems to grip better on some of the poly blanks. I also like the option of adding some color to the epoxy if need be.
TurtleTom
Member
I've used 4 different brands with no discernable difference, but maybe I'm just easy. Even Walmart's worked ok when I ran out of the good stuff. It does help having all three thicknesses though.
ljpilcher@suddenlink
Member
Epoxy or CA
Epoxy. I started out with CA but had a few seize up on me. I like the 5 minute Epoxy. Never tried the Gorilla type but am aware of the advantages mentioned and the possibility it would move the tube. I was unaware of the need to dampen the blank.
Epoxy. I started out with CA but had a few seize up on me. I like the 5 minute Epoxy. Never tried the Gorilla type but am aware of the advantages mentioned and the possibility it would move the tube. I was unaware of the need to dampen the blank.
Philip E
Member
I am going to throw my 2 cents in here and if I get change back then so be it. I am strictly a CA glue user. I made a wood insertion tool on my lathe and use it all the time, sticking it back on the lathe occasionally to sand it smooth again when the glue builds up on it. I have noticed I have the biggest trouble with halfway stuck tubes is when it is really warm in my shop and the glue is warm (worse if working with a really porous wood). I tried putting the glue in the frig while not using it and haven't lost a tube or blank since doing that. On porous woods I use a cotton swab to coat the inside of the blank with a thin glue to seal it up a bit.
philipff
Member
Tortilla for me. Works every time!!*
philipff
Member
Gorilla for me. Works every time!!*
drewdin
Member
I had some Tite Bond polyurethane glue that I tried, it worked great except that it foamed up like crazy and I had to clean it off everything once it was dry. I ended up buying some thick CA glue, I figured the thick would give me more time and I could use it for other stuff. Thanks for all the responses!
TurtleTom
Member
I use CA exclusively! (On all 5 pens I've turned) But check my article on making a HDPE backstop for your blanks that makes glue up with CA a snap.
sschering
Member
I"m in the epoxy camp.. 5 minute would be nice but I have a gallon of 30 min laminating resin so I use that.
For tinting black I'll add a little west systems 423 graphite powder. One can should last you a lifetime of pen turning.
This test found that dry powdered tempera paint is a good additive for tinting resins.
For tinting black I'll add a little west systems 423 graphite powder. One can should last you a lifetime of pen turning.
This test found that dry powdered tempera paint is a good additive for tinting resins.
sbwertz
Member
Embossing powder (from a crafts store) also works to color the epoxy.