ElGrande/Churchill problems? A possible solution??

[RussFairfield]

There is another thread where several people are posting their problems with breaking the pen coupler on the El Grande and Churchill kits. There was a similar topic awhile back about the plastic fitting in the cap at the center-band. I have no way of relating to either problem because I have made a lot of El Grande pens, and have not had the first one break (yet).

I am wondering if the breaking isn't the result of damage or overstressing of the plastic that occurred when the pen was pressed together. It could be the result of pushing directly against the end of the plastic fittings during assembly.

A better way to assemble all plastic fittings is to screw the mating part into the threads, and pushing against that, rather than on the end of the plastic fitting where we could damage the threads or the part itself. That way the force is distributed along the threads and the entire fitting, rather than against the end of the piece. I made up a set of these "mating parts" so they can be used for nothing else.

The other caution is to use just enough force to bring the parts together when we assemble the pen. We should avoid being heavy-handed and giving it that extra pull after the fitting is seated in the tube. I don't like to use an arbor press to assemble pens because a 2-Ton capacity is overkill by several orders of magnitude, and the mechanical advantage can cause some serious damage without my even knowing it.

 

[ed4copies]

Russ,

I have made very few Churchill, ElGrande pens. Is the "breaking" part the part that inserts in the pen, or the nib threads (that's what I THOUGHT they were breaking)????

 

[DCBluesman]

How would Russ know what part is breaking, since he has not had one break? []

 

[ed4copies]

Lou,

Russ is a smart guy. IF he has been following these threads, which I have not, cause I don't make that pen (often), I suspect he can give me an authoritative reply (Yes, I would accept YOUR authoritative reply, as well!!)

Additionally, he has analyzed the problem, based on the thread insert -- this surprises me, since the insert is short and, I would expect, VERY difficult to break. So, I am (not surprisingly) CONFUSED (again)!![:0][:0][:0][:0]

 

[gerryr]

It's the nib coupler that breaks. I've had it happen on two pens I sold, and repaired.

 

[ed4copies]

Gerry,

That part only sticks out .135" on the one in my desk. The stress on it SHOULD be minimal. I think Russ is on to a possibility. Another possibility, some may be cracked from the factory????? I just don't see HOW it could be a pressure point???? Mechanically, the nib assembly is much longer and also plastic -- IT should break, first.

What am I missing???

 

[RussFairfield]

I get confused easilly.

Yes, I posted this message as a possible solution to a kit problem that I have never had but once. I damaged the threads in the first plastic fitting that I pushed into a tube. It was an ElGrande. I found a better way to push on plastic fittings, and have been doing it ever since.

 

[bitshird]

I made a press block for the nib coupler after hearing of the breakage problem, I drill a 7/16 hole in a piece of 1/2 in nylon stock so that the threaded portion of the coupler is in the hole and the shoulder is setting on the nylon block, I don't know if that is why mine haven't broken.

 

[wdcav1952]

I'm with you, Ken. I made a press block and haven't had a single one break since. My best customer probably owns 10 Churchill and El Grande pens and has no problems. I know he treats them rough because he is biker <s>trash</s> I mean he owns two Harleys. [}]

 

[marionquill]

I've had the piece on the El Grande that presses into the cap, the plastic threads, break loose from the metal center band. It tends to only happen when a potential customer tries to either pull the cap off, or is too tough for their own good and closes it so tightly that it breaks loose and starts to spin. Either way, makes me want to...well, won't go there, but it fixes easy enough...

Jason

 

[jack barnes]

I bought a Cambridge FP kit, and the nib broke. I like the looks of the finished pen, but will not be buying any more unless they drop the price to around ten dollars, because twentyfive or twentysix dollars is to much money to throw away on a kit that breaks.

Jack

 

[bgray]

The press block is the way to assemble these pens...hands down.

Mine is turned from aluminum.

If you are pressing directly on the threads, you are asking for it.

I sell a lot of pens based on this nib coupler, and I have had probably 2-3 percent returned for a repair and it's always at this point where it breaks.

The bottom line...don't put the pen in your pants pocket.

If the pen gets abused, this is where it will break.

However, it's a VERY simple repair.

 

[bitshird]

Originally posted by marionquill

I've had the piece on the El Grande that presses into the cap, the plastic threads, break loose from the metal center band. It tends to only happen when a potential customer tries to either pull the cap off, or is too tough for their own good and closes it so tightly that it breaks loose and starts to spin. Either way, makes me want to...well, won't go there, but it fixes easy enough...

Jason

I had an Idiot try to pull the top off my Churchill this morning, Fortunately my wife grabbed it and showed her the proper way to gently twist it open, NEVER give your favorite pen to some one that normally uses a bic[:0][:0][:0][:0][:0]

 

[Rudy Vey]

I never had this problem, and I have made a number of El Grandes and El Grandes Streamlined. When I first read about a problem, some guys said they dropped the pen from a desk on carpeted floor and it broke - so I tossed an El Grande 10 times on the floor and it is still fine. I have a customer that uses his EG daily for at least 5 years - no problem, only there is no gold color left.

 

[redfishsc]

Thanks for the topic Russ. When you speak at the city gates, the elders stand and listen, that's for sure. Sounds like you have the problem pinned down.

I'll use a press block if I have any orders for this pen--- the one's I'd made before I did NOT use a press block with, which might describe why I have broken pens.


That issue aside, there is still the question that, if even a pen maker can totally inadvertently break the nib coupler, shouldn't the nib coupler be a bit more durable? I don't want to have to walk on eggshells when making pens. Most kits, I don't have to. With this kit, it's eggshells, prayers, and talismans.

 

[Ligget]

Originally posted by bitshird

I made a press block for the nib coupler after hearing of the breakage problem, I drill a 7/16 hole in a piece of 1/2 in nylon stock so that the threaded portion of the coupler is in the hole and the shoulder is setting on the nylon block, I don't know if that is why mine haven't broken.

I too used a press block like mentioned here, 2 pens still broke.

 

[RussFairfield]

So much for that theory.

I guess it has to remain a puzzle why some people are breaking pens while others are not.

 

[ed4copies]

Russ,

Let's say we are TRYING to break that piece.

We first have to get a grip on it. This can be done by screwing the cap on. NOW, we have to put sideways pressure on it, sufficient to break the threaded part. This can be done by putting it in a "pants' pocket". OR, you can grasp it and push back and forth as you would when trying to break a piece of steel rod. Either method MAY work.

While this is certainly abusing the pen, it appears that some men DO have the habit of carrying in pants' pockets. THIS COULD accomplish the task.

So, although I would repair the pen, I believe we are within "reason" if we charge for the repairs. The "moral", if there is one, may be to ask the suppliers to make this single part available to us.

The whole discussion has made me MORE likely to handle the pen, however, cause it IS light for its size. AND, I don't see this "breakage" as a big deterrent.

FWIW!!! Thanks for introducing the topic, made me think!!

 

[Ligget]

One Churchill broke as my wife had it laying in her handbag, she placed her purse/wallet on top of the pen `snap`, and NO she isn`t rich! lol

The other Churchill fell from a desk onto a carpeted floor (approx 2 or 3 feet high) `snap`!

The press block I use is made from scrap Cocobolo, hole drilled just larger than the threads but small enough to make good contact with the collar of the part which breaks.
I only press these in gently with a pen press not an arbour press etc..

 

[Jerryconn]

I use 2 El Grandes on a daily basis. This is one of the most modifiable kits available and the fountain pen nibs are good
The press block will prevent the stress on the plastic portion of the coupler.
Dropping the pen will cause it to break if it hits just right, I have had it happen to me.
Overtightening the cap stresses the threads and coupler.
Trying to pull the pen apart will stress it.
Carrying it your pocket stresses the coupler because the pen is trying to bend to conform to your leg.
The finial plastic will also break when it hits the floor. Happened to me twice.
Perhaps the request of Berea should be, since these two components are susceptible to damage/failure could they make them available for sell separately to avoid having to purchase a whole kit to fix a damaged pen.
An all metal coupler would definitely be a big step in the right direction.
My 2 cents worth.

 

[Texatdurango]

One thing I have learned recently. If one is convinced that the pen kit is inferior and none of the problems are from their own doing, either assembly techniques or rough handling, then I don't believe anything can be said to change their minds.

I could say that I have built over two dozen of the El Grande fountain pens without incident and have used the nib jacket and the dastardly coupler on another few dozen or so custom pens without incident but it won't sway anyones mind, so I won't.

Russ is right, it will just have to remain a mystery why some continue to have pens break and others don't.

 

[randyrls]

Originally posted by bitshird

I made a press block for the nib coupler after hearing of the breakage problem, I drill a 7/16 hole in a piece of 1/2 in nylon stock so that the threaded portion of the coupler is in the hole and the shoulder is setting on the nylon block, I don't know if that is why mine haven't broken.

Ken; I have done the same thing, and for the same reason.

Use a scrap piece of acrylic (cut-off). Drill the hole near one edge of the block. Use for pressing clips onto finials, and threaded parts into tubes. Some kit instructions suggest this, some don't.

I use a bench vise to press pen parts, and have wood faces on the vise to protect parts.

Hope this helps.