The Ed Brown Grind for the Oval Skew

[KenV]

Watched the Ed Brown video series again. It is worth doing again from time to time.

This time I was paying attention to the skews Ed was using.

What I saw:

Oval Skew

1 1/8 or so in width

Ground straight across with "drooping corners"

Moderate included angle -- estimated at about a 40 degree setting on my grinder table (I use a RoboRest)

Could not tell if he hones/sharpens the points but Ed does not use the points regularly so probably not.



Drooping corner amount was not consistent in,the videos, but some drop was visible. Perhaps the arc of a 50 cent piece at the most.


So----

I have a 3/4 inch over Sorby skew that was not seeing much use so I put an Ed Brown Grind on it. I tend to use the,point so honed both points along the side of the shank of the tool to get a sharp point.

Works well. This is a speed improved. Less messing with the tool. Left to right and sight to left and never take the tool off the took rest.

Single point cuts easily.

I like it!


Thanks Ed!!!

 

[ed4copies]

Hey Ken,

Glad to help---I have no idea what my skews look like, two passes and I can tell where I am cutting decently and, we're off!!!:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

 

[KenV]

It is easier to use on the wheel because the high center on the Oval Skew stays centered on the grinder table. Two sweeps and back to cutting. I tend to hone a few times at the lathe and no problems with honoring.


You did work out some production tricks with those hundreds of pens.

 

[ed4copies]

Many of the "tricks" were thought out and experimented to "comfort level" (far from perfection).

This particular trick was an accident. Don't know WHAT I did, so sure don't know WHY--but I do know I am comfortable with the tools and they are sharpened primitively--no fancy jigs, put the blade on the grinder and watch for sparks coming over the blade.

No, I don't hone, often---will touch up the blade on a diamond stone once in a while. I really think SCARY SHARP tools are more likely to chip out resins, so I stick with "pretty sharp".

Thanks for taking the time to do the analysis---I always value your input--in this case, it may lead me to TRY to get the angles you describe!!

Soon as I figure out what they mean?!?!?!?

 

[TonyL]

It was actually Ed's video that inspired to start using a skew.

 

[KenV]

Ed -- the classic skew is with a bevel 1 1/2 times the thickness of the tool.

that results in an included angle (the angle of the metal at the edge with both sides beveled) of about 40 degrees. If the bevel is shorter than 1 1/2 times the thickness the included angle is larger and if it longer than 1 1/2 times the thickness the angle is smaller.

As the angle gets smaller, the tool tends to be more "grabby" as the angle becomes more blunt the tool needs a bit more force to cut but is not grabby.


The longer thinner edge (smaller angle) will tend to be more "chippy" and the shorter thicker edge will be better for using the skew as a scraper.

 

[mark james]

Great thread!

Lots of good info! PLEASE CONTINUE...

 

[KenV]

Mark -- watch some of the Ed Brown video and pay attention to his the skew and how he uses it. There is a lot of good practical stuff there.

Not flash -- but good production and good outcomes.

 

[pianomanpj]

I've watched all of Ed's videos, and I understand the basics of what you're saying. However, I'm having a hard time visualizing the mechanics and mathematics. Any chance someone could draw a sketch of the grind of Ed's skew?

 

[magpens]

KenV -
Thanks for this thread. I have watched a number of Ed Browns how-to videos and I always *thought* there was something *funny* about the grind on his oval skew that he uses nearly all the time .... now I *know* that there is !!!!

 

[edstreet]

Perhaps someone can help here and point me to a high quality oval skew. The only ones I have seen are low quality and every one of the great tool manufactures refuse to make ovals for some reason. I even have talked to former aaw president Alan later about ovals and he has an eye opener view on the subject.

 

[jttheclockman]

Not a big oval skew guy. Unless I am doing a lot of rolling of the skew then I want a flat skew. It keeps the cutter sweet point in direct line and I do not have to be weary of my arm tilting. Now i always knock off the square edges of the skew and round them over so they do not bite into my tool bar. Touch up the skew many times with a diamond card before I need to hit the grinder. I use the skew on all my pens.

 

[magpens]

Did a Google search for .... ALAN LACER SKEW .... others might be interested

 

[jttheclockman]

Did a Google search for .... ALAN LACER SKEW .... others might be interested

I use his grind on all my skews. It works for me.
I have one of his larger skews.

 

[KenV]

Point to be made --- Alan Lacer does not turn pens --

I loved his box turning workshop and learned a lot. He is very very good at what he does. I did not hear a single question asked about pen turning during Alan's Workshop.

Ed Brown does not make turned boxes. He is very very good at what he does too. Ed does not offer any advise on turning wood boxes.


If you have an oval skew and want to try a very good grind for turning cylinders and flowing curves on pen barrells, Ed has some good technique and a well shaped oval skew grind.

Different approaches to different kinds of turning situations happens all the time -- and those who specialize have special approaches and techniques.

I did not take a Richard Raffan Workshop to ask pen turning questions either -- but did learn how to get an elevate bead on the side of a bowl with a 3/8 inch spindle gouge.

 

[KenV]

Perhaps someone can help here and point me to a high quality oval skew. The only ones I have seen are low quality and every one of the great tool manufactures refuse to make ovals for some reason. I even have talked to former aaw president Alan later about ovals and he has an eye opener view on the subject.

I do not know your filters on high quality. The one I am using was made by Sorby (the British firm). I do know Alan Lacers opinion on oval skews as I have taken a workshop from him. I also note that Alan does not turn pens.

Oval skew can work quite nicely on pens -- I have never an oval skew used it to turn boxes.

 

[edstreet]

Then someone should get in touch with Alan and ask him to remove all references to pens from his bio page.

 

[jttheclockman]

Oval skews are not easy to sharpen because of the shape and not being able to sit flat on the tool rest of the grinder. They have jigs that can accommodate this. With that said any tool can turn a pen. This is not rocket science. Anyone who become proficient with an oval skew can easily turn a pen and I am sure Alan Lacer is all of that. Not advertising it as a go to tool for pen turning is his choice because there are better choices. But can it be done??? Absolutely.

I did not watch Ed Brown's tape and I am sure it was well thought out but it is only one person's method. Alan has his method and so many others have theirs. Try new things and you never know.

Happy Turning.

 

[alphageek]

Perhaps someone can help here and point me to a high quality oval skew. The only ones I have seen are low quality and every one of the great tool manufactures refuse to make ovals for some reason. I even have talked to former aaw president Alan later about ovals and he has an eye opener view on the subject.

Crown Hand Tools. Manufacturers of woodturning, woodworking and woodcarving tools.
and
Robert Sorby | High Quality Woodworking Tools

Both very well known tool makers - both offer oval skews.

And yes, many of us are WELL aware that Alan Lacer prefers flat skews... But like any preference, there is both sides to it. A very good writeup from people with opposite sides:
http://woodturninglearn.net/articles/defenseofskew.htm

(This will be my ONLY reply to this subject since I can predict your reaction to it - and I'm posting only to give my views, not to try and change yours).

As for "good quality/bad quality" - none of it matters to me. All I know is that my $15 oval skew is my favorite to turn with... Even though I own some other skews including some that are much "higher quality" with a much higher price tag.

However, mine is not sharpened with the "Ed Brown Grind" - I sharpen differently and don't think I could replicate that grind if I tried to. Nor do I want to try as I like how I sharpen mine and it works for me as is.

To each their own!

 

[TurtleTom]

I got more than a dollar's worth from both Ed's and Alan's videos. Alan was first so I use a flat chisel. For now.