ebony

[dozuki]

A friend of mine saw a Robusto pen i made and wanted one in ebony. does anyone know how to drill this stuff so it won't explode. this stuff is to expensive to waste.

 

[Tom McMillan]

Well, I've been real lucky with the Ebony I've had---but, to be sure I don't have problems in the future with cracking issues---which it seems many have encountered---I'm going to try black steelwood from Arizona Silhouette which is said to be a dead ringer for Ebony.

 

[Daniel]

Paul,
I've never made a Robusto. but it sounds like one of the Large pens. ao I am going to assume a large Drill bit...
I have ahd this problem with African Blackwood and this ws my solution. I drill the balnk in at least two steps. sometimes three. the trick to redrilling and still getting a nice round hole is to leave enough material for the bit to biting into. don't leave just a shaving for the last pass to take out. leave 3/32-1/8 inch for each side of the bit to drill out in that last cut. this means the previous bit needs to be 3/16-1/4 inch smaller than the final hole. also back up the blank with a scrap piece of wood where the bit exits. most of my explosions come as the bit breaks through.

 

[leehljp]

I am new at pen turning - a couple of months now and had a couple of blowouts with some Japanese persimmon which is an ebony wood. I did solve it (so far) by taking small bites with a sharp bit, moderately high speed and clamping it well on all four sides. It is not something to hurry with - in the drilling set up or the drilling itself.

 

[Old Griz]

Paul, drilling ebony is tricky because it is really really heat sensitive, you need a very sharp bit and taking small cuts, Where you may run into your biggest problem is weeks or months after the pen is finished and in the hands of the customer... I have found that the best finish for ebony is no finish.. just bring it to 12000MM and then some Hut Plastic polish.. the wood is hard and oily enough that this is all that it needs.. the oil of the users hands will bring out a beautiful patina as time goes one...
BUT... I have seen some solid ebony pens start to crack after a couple of weeks or months.. especially in hot dry climates... I live in Western MD, not far from you, I did a real nice ebony/holly pen that came out sweet... got real lucky on it... 6 months later the ebony started to develop linear cracks.. nothing I could do about it... there is a reason that most ebony blocks are sold coated in wax, even when already dry..
If you can find some real nice black black African blackwood, I would do the pen in that... another alternative is poor man's ebony... a piece of plain grain hard maple dyed with india ink, buffed in with a piece of brown paper bag and then a nice CA finish to deepen the look...
These are my observations and suggestions take it for what it is worth... just my 2 cents...

 

[ed4copies]

Paul,

I too have turned ebony pens early in my habit (ah, hobby). At one outdoor show in July it was about 100 degrees, 80% or better humidity and by the end of the show all 8 of my ebony pens were cracked, some severly. Pink Ivory also took a tragic that day. Since then, I don't do ebony pens. I have also read about blackwood, but I am just now trying that.

Best of luck, but if you succeed, remember it may break at ANY time, so warn your friend so he stays your friend if the worst happens!

 

[MDWine]

Interesting information! I just bought 50 maple blanks for that very purpose, dying and trying!

I got 50 of them for about 15 bucks! As a penturning infant, I'm pretty excited!

 

[JimGo]

Michael,
I'm curious to see how your dying experiment turns out. Please post pics!

 

[Rifleman1776]

For the reasons stated, I decided to use a synthetic as a 'faux ebony' for a product unrelated to pen making. The synthetic was delrin plastic. It turns beautifully, sorta rubbery, and polishes without a finish. Downside, it won't glue. No way, no how. If you decide to try a synthetic, be cautious in your selection. Try only small samples before comitting to large quantities. Anybody got any ideas for what I can do with 1" and 3/8" delrin rod? []

 

[MDWine]

Jim, I've seen several places where they use india ink to dye maple. My guess is to turn it to shape, then dye it, then finish sand and complete. Recently, WOOD magazine had something on it (Feb/March issue), though I haven't read the full article just yet.

Tom gave me a piece of ebony, but it's kinda neat so I don't think I'll ruin it just yet!

I most definitely will post photos.

 

[Thumbs]

C'mon MIke and Tom. Tell us how, too! Don't just be showin' off! Your public wants to know!

 

[wayneis]

Another wood that takes stain well is holly. It can also be stabilized and have the coloring done at the same time, then you will get good penatration.

Wayne

 

[Gregory Huey]

I concur with what has already been said. I have not had a blow out when drilling ebony as I take very small cuts and use a very sharp bit. On the other hand I have not been able to stp Ebony from cracking. Do yourself a favor and use black wood or dye your wood.

 

[swm6500]

All the talk about ebony cracking almost has me ready to throw the few pieces I have away.

 

[timdaleiden]

Originally posted by swm6500
<br />All the talk about ebony cracking almost has me ready to throw the few pieces I have away.

I have made Ebony pens without any problems with cracking. I held on to one for about a year. It was exposed to heat and cold extremes.

Maybe I was just lucky.

I did leave the barrels with a thicker profile, used Poly glue, and the blanks seemed about as dry as Ebony can get.

I think one of the pens is in my album.

 

[wayneis]

I wouldn't toss it away, it can still be used for small projects like centerbands and trim. From my experence you won't have the problems with using it that way, I've also used it as inlay with no problems. Another material to try for a black pen is Steelwood, I bought some from BB and did a black pen the other day that turned out really nice.

Wayne

 

[Fred in NC]

I have a feeling the brass tube is the culprit in some cases. If it gets hot, like in a car, it will expand.

 

[JimGo]

Fred,
That might explain why Wayne's poly glued blanks fared better. I don't know about Wayne, but some here drill a slightly larger hole (i.e. maybe 1/64") than required when using poly glue because it gives the poly more room to expand. That would also give the brass room to expand and contract (though it would push against the poly, but that may give before the wood would). Any thoughts?

 

[Fred in NC]

Jim, that is the idea! A little 'cushion' between the tube and the wood seems to help a lot.

Also, the brass tubes are usually undersized for a 'press fit' that expands the tube at the end. I use my "D" size (.246") reamer ( the drill bit with a wood handle) to make it a snug 'slip' fit. A tiny drop of thin CA will hold the brass part in place.

 

[JimGo]

Interesting idea Fred! Thanks!

 

[Fangar]

Robusto in Ebony. The kit is very large. One of the largest I have seen. The pen cap is a 14 mm tube.

The pen came out great. But like others, I had to change the name from, "Robusto", to, "El Cracko". This one was all good for about 1 month or so. Then... WAAAAHHHHH. Note the crack in the second photo.

El Cracko

I turned a pen and pencil set for a co-worker out of Ebony. El Cracko'ed. I re-did them in the darkest Bolivian Rosewood I could find. He was happy with the results.

James

 

[BigRob777]

I am not experienced with turning pens (yet), but I tend to agree with you all, especially this quote by Fred:

Originally posted by Fred in NC
<br />I have a feeling the brass tube is the culprit in some cases. If it gets hot, like in a car, it will expand.

I would also add that dark materials absorb the sun's heat at a much higher rate than lighter stuff, and the combination of black wood, (which is dense and therefore does not let off as much heat and has less interior insulation) and metal cause the pen to get too hot. It also has those oils that don't help either. Ebony has a capacity for hiding cracks too, so some that might have been there all along, look like they are new, because they open up during the expansion process.
[]I just got a boatload of the stuff and now I'm wondering if I should try to sell or trade it in this forum. Are there any ebony lovers out there still? I AM talking about the wood. I also wonder if the grained ebony, like in the pen above will have a better chance of staying intact.f It is also lighter and can dissapate heat better (I think).[] My brain isn't awake enough yet, is that pen above Morado or ebony? It looks like some of the Ebony I have, but also like some of the darker Morado (Bolivian Rosewood) I have also.

 

[jdavis]

Very sharp bit and many in and outs. heat is the main problem with extra hard woods. Medium speed also will help.

 

[scalawagtoo]

I have had six ebony and a couple of pink ivory pens crack on me, sometimes weeks or months later.

My last two Blackwoods cracked, one has just a tiny crack at the tip so far.

I'm not going to waste any more money on those pens and with what ebony and pink I have left I'm thinking of laminating thin slices of ebony and pink ivory. If it comes out I'll call it the Pink Piano. Any suggestion on what kind of adhesive to use[?]

Slicing it real thin just might relieve stress in the blank but I think the problem is brittleness.

 

[timdaleiden]

Originally posted by timdaleiden

I have made Ebony pens without any problems with cracking. I held on to one for about a year. It was exposed to heat and cold extremes.

Maybe I was just lucky.

I did leave the barrels with a thicker profile, used Poly glue, and the blanks seemed about as dry as Ebony can get.

I think one of the pens is in my album.

Just to update this post. I stopped in today at the place that sells some of my pens, and just had to check on the Ebony pen. Well, guess what? Both barrels each had a fine crack.

I made this pen well over a year ago, and I used a friction polish finish on it, so I don't know if a better finish would have saved it from the wood movement it experienced, but I had to pull it off the shelf.

Edit: BTW, maybe one of the moderators should move this thread to a more appropriate Forum.

 

[Randy_]

Originally posted by JimGo<br />Fred,That might explain why Wayne's poly glued blanks fared better. I don't know about Wayne, but some here drill a slightly larger hole (i.e. maybe 1/64") than required when using poly glue because it gives the poly more room to expand. That would also give the brass room to expand and contract (though it would push against the poly, but that may give before the wood would). Any thoughts?

There was a post recently on one of the boards by someone who said BB had suggested using silicone glue or caulk to glue tubes in pen blanks under certain circumstances. Don't remember the details....he may even have been talking about ebony?? A slightly over size hole and silicone glue would certainly create a soft interface between the wood and the tube, if that is, in fact, what is causing the ebony to crack.

I just asked this on the Yahoo pen board and haven't gotten a response yet. Aren't the black keys on a piano made out of ebony?? Maybe someone in the piano business could shed some light on the peculiarities of ebony??

 

[Old Griz]

Randy the post was by me... it referred to the problem I was having making soapstone pens... but I see no reason it would not work on any material that is prone to pressure cracking from pressing the kit in place... on sensitive materials I usually sand the inside of the tubes to a looser fit and use a drop of CA to set the parts instead of taking the chance of a pressure crack.

 

[alamocdc]

All this talk about movement and flexibility got me thinking about something I haven't seen posted (But maybe I just don't know where to look). Has anyone that uses epoxy and kept the drill from heating up the blank had ebony crack on them? Epoxy is pretty flexible and allows for wood movement.

 

[CPDesigns]

I haven't used ebony (well, macassar ebony, but that doesn't seem nearly as temperamental...) but I have used a LOT of African Blackwood (which qualifies as one of my top five favorite woods to turn!). I had one pen come back to me that had cracked. I realized that I had use CA glue for the brass tubes on that one. I have since switched to only using Gorilla glue (poly) for the tubes and I have yet to have a single pen crack. Anyone else using poly to glue in the tubes?

BTW; yes, I'm new to the group. This is my first post! (I'm working on uploading some pics... have to get them off of the camera first.)

Jason

 

[Fred in NC]

Welcome to the forum and IAP, Jason !

I have made several pens with real ebony top barrels. I drill the blanks ahead of time, and when ready to glue the tubes, make sure they are kind of a loose fit, and redrill if necessary.

I use 5 min epoxy only. It is flexible (if you disagree with this, mix a little on a poly lid, and let dry... a couple days later peel it off ... Other epoxies are not so flexible)

The taper I use with ebony pens leaves the wood a little thicker near the top end.

I make sure there is no glue inside the tube. I ream the tube with an undersized drill to assure a good fit without expanding the tube, which can crack the ebony.

And I don't use any kind of finish that can generate heat!

So far, so good...

 

[Dario]

Anyone tried ebonized wood on pens? I am planning on making one from one of my oak burl blanks.

Will keep you guys posted once I got one done.

 

[Fred in NC]

Dario, I experimented with ebonizing. Of course, the blackening is not very deep. It also raises the grain a bit. Please post your results, thanks !

 

[leehljp]

In Japan at many home centers, they have a 5 minute epoxy this cures to a rubbery substance similar to silcone putty. A little harder than silicone but still flexible and strong. I use it often on computer power cords at their flex point to prevent the cords from breaking from repeated bending. It is clear but cures to a cream white color. I did add some black to a mixture once for a black cord and it worked fine without weakening it.

I have not done a google check here (USA) for that epoxy but surely it or similar can be purchased here.

 

[woodbutcher]

I have made several ebony pens with no problems with cracking or splitting.I use 24 hr epoxy or gorilla glue. Never C A. Also make sure the tube to blank fit is not tight or binding. It is my experience that not all drill bits are the actual size stated. I take a micrometer or caliper set with me when buying drill bits. Half a thousanths don't sound like much, but at times it does make all the difference. Like Griz my biggest problem with ebony has been the finish, and like him I now apply no finish. Hope this is of use,


Jim []