Drilling Vice - not centered.

[Smokey7385]

I bought a drilling vice from Woodcraft that is supposed to insure that the drilling of a pen blank is centered. I've gone through the proceedure of setting up the vice according to the instructions and have it securely clamped to the drill press. When I drill the blank it is visably not centered in the blank. Most of the time this does not cause a problem but I want to start doing some segmented pens and being centered is more inportant then on a solid wood blank. Does anyone have any ideas what I'm doing wrong or what I need to do to correct the problem?
[?]

 

[Fred]

Mount a drill bit into the drill press and lower it to the pen vise. Tighten the jaws of the vise against the bit and then clamp the pen vise to the table of the drill press. Open the jaws and place a SQUARE pen blank into the vise and test for center. If it is off center then I would surmise that the table has moved on you. Also, make sure the table is 90 degrees/square to the drill bit.

 

[OKLAHOMAN]

After doing all this and still not drilling in the center, get on the list for a Paul Huffman Vise you won't be sorry. Hes one of our members and his vise is simply the best...
Here is a link you might try
http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=27026

Originally posted by Fred_erick
<br />Mount a drill bit into the drill press and lower it to the pen vise. Tighten the jaws of the vise against the bit and then clamp the pen vise to the table of the drill press. Open the jaws and place a SQUARE pen blank into the vise and test for center. If it is off center then I would surmise that the table has moved on you. Also, make sure the table is 90 degrees/square to the drill bit.

 

[OKLAHOMAN]

Also I just recived an E-mail that I will attatch a copy of from one who knows segementing; Used with his permission.
If he wants to drill segmented blanks accurately his best option is a Beall collet.
with a drill vice there are too many variables.
1.The bit must be perpendicular to the table.
2.The blank must have at least one perfect right angle.
3.The Dp can have no runout.
With a collet, the center is established,the blank is turned round,
the round cylinder already has the center defined,.
Drilling( or boring on a lathe has less variables

 

[Randy_]

Originally posted by Fred_erick
<br />Mount a drill bit into the drill press and lower it to the pen vise. Tighten the jaws of the vise against the bit and then clamp the pen vise to the table of the drill press. Open the jaws and place a SQUARE pen blank into the vise and test for center. If it is off center then I would surmise that the table has moved on you. Also, make sure the table is 90 degrees/square to the drill bit.

I'm not completely comfortable with the description as mentioned above. If the DP table is not perpendicular to the drill bit, when you clamp the jaws of the vise to the drill bit, the whole vice is going to twist a bit and the bottom of the vice will not be parallel to the DP table. When you then clamp down the vise to the table, you will be torquing the parts of the vice and the drill bit and throwing everything slightly out of alignment.

It needs to be strongly emphasized that the DP table must be perpendicular to the drill bit and measured in two directions.....front to back and side to side.

 

[gerryr]

I agree with Roy and our mutual friend. If you're doing segmented pens, you really need to turn it round between centers and drill it in a Beall on the lathe. The Beall is useful for several things in penturning.

 

[byounghusband]

Stop using that WC POS and put it in away!! That's what I did right after I got a Paul Huffman vise.
OK, take it back and see if you can get your $$ back. Lemme know if you get your $$ back, I might try the same...

 

[Smokey7385]

Thanks everyone for the info. First thing I'll do is check the DP to make sure it is perpendicular front to back, right to left. If that does not fix the problem, I'll look into the Beall collet. Not being familier with this product, can someone advise where the best place to get this?

 

[airrat]

with the woodcraft vise, when you close it completely you will know if it is lined up. ALSO if there is any play in it, that will mess you up. Those are the problems I had with mine.

With Paul's vise I highly reccommend it. If you ever want to turn bottle stoppers or center dill stuff bigger then 1 1/2 sq, the woodcraft one wont work. Paul's can do stull around 2".

 

[LEAP]

To minimize the deflection of the wood craft vise when drilling put a block under your blank so that the downward pressure is transfered to the base not the jaws. It will also help with blow outs when the bit exits the wood. Its not as good as buying the PH vise but will help keep the holes straight. I do the same thing with my Ph vise when drilling dense wood or plastics. Of course nothing beats a sharp bit.

 

[Smokey7385]

Well, the DP checked out fine so it has to be the vice. I followed the set up instructions, which are the same as those that Fred posted, to the letter and clamped the vice to the table.

Phil, you bring up a good point. I do notice deflection when I start drilling without using a block under the blank. I'll give that a try.

I went to the PH website, it only has an email address, I guess you have to email him to get a quote? The basic concept of his vice and the one I have is the same the only difference being in the material and I would assume the precision.

Also, I'm going to do a search on the Beall collet.

 

[Randy_]

Rusty: I seem to remember an old IAP thread with comments about some of the vises beeing assembled poorly with lots of loose screws or with screws that loosened up due to use. Maybe you should get a little bottle of Loc-Tite and make sure nothing is loose or will come loose on the future?

 

[Smokey7385]

Thanks Randy. I give it a look-see.

 

[jack barnes]

I have that vise and IMHO it is junk I drill on the lathe now. I'm on Paul's waiting list.

Jack

 

[Smokey7385]

I did some messing around with the vice last night and discovered something that is more that just a little upsetting. I closed the jaws all the way down and started very slowly to open them as I watched the movement of the jaws. The left jaw, as I looked at it, moved maybe 1/16th inch before the other jaw moved!!!! I'm sure that this could be tuned out, but it is no wonder the thing does not center correctly!![V]

 

[Randy_]

Now, I'm thinking I misunderstood the problem when I offered my earlier response. I was thinking the problem was that you weren't getting strait holes in your blank......actuallyt a bad description....you were getting holes that started and exited the blank in the center of the blank. What now appears to be the situation is that when you drill a series of blanks, the drill bit does not always start the hole exactly in the center of the blank so the issue is one of repeatability of finding the center of the blank.....is that correct??

I have never used one of those self-centering(?) vises so I really have no idea what the problem is, therefore the following is just speculation. You might want to take another close look at the jaw movement for a start. Watch the jaw movement when you start to "CLOSE" the jaws. If the left jaw movement is delayed by the same 1/16", the movements may be self-canceling and there is some other reason for your problem?

Have you contacted Woodcraft and talked with their technical staff. Maybe the your vise is defective and they will send you another one? Maybe it is just a piece of crap as some have suggested.

From all of the reviews, Paul Huffman's vise is very good; but there is usually a long wait to get one and they are pricey. I notice PSI is selling one for quite a bit less and according to the ad, it received the highest possible rating in a Wood Magazine review in 2003.

You might also consider options other than a self-centering vise. I can see the benefit of having such a tool if you are a production turner and drill a lot of blanks at one sitting; but if you only drill a blank or two at a session, I don't really see the need.

Good luck with your problem. I'm sure it is a major frustration.

 

[Smokey7385]

Randy,
Yes, the drilling does not start in the center to begin with. I supose I could just offset the thing to begin with and call it good. Like everyone though, I hate buying something and then it not doing what it is advertised to do.

 

[Randy_]

Originally posted by Smokey7385
<br />.....I hate buying something and then it not doing what it is advertised to do.

Me, too!!

Do give Woodcraft a call and provide them with an opportunity to back up their product.

 

[Paul in OKC]

From all of the reviews, Paul Huffman's vise is very good; but there is usually a long wait to get one and they are pricey. I notice PSI is selling one for quite a bit less and according to the ad, it received the highest possible rating in a Wood Magazine review in 2003.

Was there any competition?[](sorry, couldn't resist.)

 

[skiprat]

I also have one of Paul's vices and I love it. However, unless each blank is pretty square to start with, then each hole will be a bit off centre. It doesn't matter who's vice you use, if the blank is not square ( or round ) it will not drill in the middle. I only have one drill press, so I can't leave my vice set up. In a previous post, I also said that I set mine up by clamping up on the lowered drill bit, then clamping the vice to the DP table. Randy is of course perfectly correct, about torquing the bit and vice. On the rare occassions that I have tilted my table, I ALWAYS set it square before I pack up. I have a 'budget' bench top DP and have found that when drilling tough wood or metal, I get a bit of flex in the table ( even with sharp bits). Although it is a bit of a pain, I have learned to live with it. I simply use a length of flat metal that I clamp with a pair of vice grips onto the edge of the table that then rests on the bottom base of the drill press.
Now I can drill very aggressively through even stainless steel, knowing that my table is rock solid.

Getting back to Paul's vice, while I love mine, I am about to do a small mod. The crank handle rotates below the base line. This would not normally be a problem if you have it mounted on a base. But when I need to drill a very long hole, I need every inch I can get out of my bench top DP. Without a sub base, I have to make sure that the handle is over the edge of the DP table. I'm about to make a new handle, but no biggie. My new handle will be like a screwdriver handle.
I know I digressed from the original topic, but I thought I would chuck my thoughts in.[8D]

 

[Daddy1]

I had this same problem but found it was my drill press not the vise. I did what some suggested and took a level to my table and found it was WAY OFF! Once corrected it is much better. I still have to begin off center a bit to make sure the drill bit comes out in the center at the other end but sooooo much better than earlier. I have learned sooo much from so many of my own mistakes lately

 

[Randy_]

Originally posted by Daddy1<br />.....I did what some suggested and took a level to my table and found it was WAY OFF!

Using a level is not the best method to get your DP table square to the drill bit. This will only work if your floor is perfectly level and the DP column is exactly perpendicular to the floor.

You could level your DP table perfectly and the table would be nowhere near perpendicular to the drill bit which is what you are looking for if the floor is not level.

The proper way to set up a DP table is to use a square to set the angle between the drill bit and the table.

I have no doubt that your set-up is better now than it was before; but get a square and recheck everything. You just might be able to do even better!!

 

[Randy_]

I sent a link to this thread to the technical department at Woodcraft. (Rusty: Did you ever contact them??) Craig responded with the comment below. Since he wasn't registered with IAP he could post an answer so he responded directly to me.

I couldn’t get onto the site. However, he should check the set screws on the vise. If they come loose it allows the vise to close out of parallel.

Rusty: Have you had any luck getting your vice to perform better or is it still misbehaving?

 

[MDWine]

Just FYI, I found that the UNDERSIDE of my DP was not even, aside from having a rib/reinforcement under there. I found the flat spot on the underside, and mine is a bit better since.

 

[BigJIm]

Hi gang... I to have had some trouble with centering a WC vise. I inherited my father's machinest vise that I even used as a kid, and I put a "V" block in to hold it perpendicular to the vise and the drill press table. 'Twas like a Eureka moment, what a difference even the ease of placing the blank in the vise and removal. I'm sold on my Dad's old vise.
Jim