Drill Press

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jack barnes

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I was drilling some blanks yesterday and noticed when I start dead or as close to dead center the hole is way off center at the exit.
I checked to make sure everthing was squire and level. I used a couple different bits thinking that was the problem. Any ideas on what check next?

Jack
 
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saltwein

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Take a coat hanger and cut a section from it, put two 90° bends in it oppossing each other and chuck it into the drill press. This can be used to check the table alignment by bringing the table up to the end of the hanger and turning the chuck. If the table is true and then you need to look at your clamping procedure.

Steve
 

TomG

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Originally posted by wdcav1952
<br />Three words: Paul Huffman Vise!

I wanted to see one but when I googled nothing came up. Do you have a link?

Tom
 

wdcav1952

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Tom,

Paul is a member here who is a machinist, or something else I don't understand [;)]

He makes outstanding vises for drilling blanks. If I do this right, it should take you to his album and a pix of the vise. Contact him for ordering info.

http://www.penturners.org/forum/photo_album_view.asp?cname=Gadgets&mid=447&cid=1316
 

byounghusband

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Celina, Texas, USA.
Jack,
Along with the previous suggestions, which I have done both, Paul's vises are the BEST!!
When you are drilling, let the bit do the work. If you apply too much pressure, the bit can wander and follow the path of least resistence. Drill down 1/8" to 1/4" and pull back to release shavings, cool the bit, etc. Repeat until you are done.
Some leave the blank about 1/4" to 1/2" long so they don't have to go through the bottom to dimish blowouts. [:0]
I don't do that, but have the blank resting on a scrap piece of wood. No alignment problems here.....[:D]
 

ctwxlvr

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Hartford, CT, USA.
I have discovered the machinist vice I currently use has a major problem of the "flat" surfaces at the bottom of the vice between the jaws, is not square but slope down toward the outside edges by about 4 to 5 degrees. so I am waiting on one of Paul's vices.
 

jack barnes

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Thanks everyone I'll giving the coat hanger thing a try tomarrow, been wanting a paul vise for a while now, guess I'll get on Pauls list and deal with the wife about it later.

Jack
 

Rmartin

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Hey, don't be telling anyone about Paul's vices! I'm on the list and waiting for almost ever for mine!

I did break down and buy the PSI one while I'm waiting, and it's nice, but it doesn't have enough of a base for clamping to the drill press.
 

mewell

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Lakewood, Colorado, USA.
While you're waiting for your drill press vise from Paul, get on the list for one of his "mighty fine" pen presses too! [:D]

I've also been told that he's been thinking about adding a log sled to his list of products, so just in case, I got on THAT list [^]
 

Rifleman1776

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Originally posted by Rmartin
<br />I don't use a pen press. I really don't know why people do. I find a vise/clamp a much more presice way of assembly.
That's OK. Whatever works for you is best. I got a pen press a long time ago from Johnson in a trade and wouldn't be without one now. Easy and precise and speeds up my work.
 

mdburn_em

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Chesapeake, VA, USA
Jack,
I had exactly the same problem you are having. I checked and my table was square. I purchased one of Paul's vises and I had to go back and sort through my cut-off pile because stuff that was too thin before, was definitely pen blank material now. You can tell your wife you will be saving money.[;)][:D]
It probably will be true over time.
 

TBone

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Roanoke Rapids, NC, USA.
Good advice here. Best that I can give you is follow the instructions with the coat hanger and no matter what you find, after you fix it, get on Paul's list. You will never regret spending that money. Just start adding up how much money was spent on the wasted blanks.
 

Randy_

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Jack: I'm probably going to catch some flack for this post; but what the hey.......... While there is no doubt that Paul's vise is a fine tool, it is not a magic bullet and won't help you solve your problem if there is some fundamental flaw in your drilling procedure. People have been drilling perfectly good holes for a long time before Paul's vise came along...his vise just makes it easier and with better repeatability. If you don't don't have the basic set-up correct, you will get crooked holes with Paul's vise, too.

Here are some of the things you need to have to get a straight hole.

1. Drill press without a lot of runout and set to the correct drilling speed. Some difference of opinion here; but 2000 RPMs should be about right for a 7mm drill bit in wood. Reduce the speed for larger bits or for synthetics.

2. A sharp and "properly" sharpened drill bit. Brad points and bullet points are preferred by most and some think that 135° bits work better than the more common 118° bits. A bit can be sharp; but if the flutes are not the same, you will have an off-center bit that won't drill a good hole.

3. Yon must have the DP table set perpendicular to the axis of the drill bit in 2 directions....left and right and fore and aft. The bent hanger trick should take care of this.

4. You must have some sort of device that will hold your blank firmly in position while being drilled and capable of of keeping it's central axis in line with the axis of the drill bit. There are any number of devices that will do this chore from a machinists V-block to a hand vise made out of two pieces of scrap wood. They will all work just fine if set up accurately.

5. You must have a blank that is reasonably....all of it's faces either parallel or perpendicular to each other.

6. And you must have a blank without an extremely prominent grain that will deflect the drill bit.....rare but it can happen.

If you put all of these requirements together(hope I haven't missed anything), you will get a straight hole.....whether you are using a PH vise or not.

Perhaps you need to give us some more detail on your procedure before we can really help you. You indicated that you checked everything "to be sure it was true and level" but from your later comment, it appears that you are not sure if your table is properly set. That being the case I am just a bit leery of your assertion that everything is true and level. Tell us a little more about your set-up method, please.

The things I would be most interested in are what you are using to hold your blanks and how you check the orientation of the blank relative to the drill bit. I guess another question is has this always been a problem or is this something new that has just started recently.

One little test you can run that will quickly give some insight into the problem is as follows. Drill a hole in a scrap piece of wood. Then remove the bit from the DP and insert the bit in the hole you have just drilled. Using a square or a drawing triangle, see if the drill bit is perpendicular to the piece of wood...check in 2 directions that are at 90° to each other.

With a little more information, we may be able to narrow in on your problem.
 

jack barnes

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Springfield, Ma.
Randy: My comment about trying the hanger trick was because I've never heard of it, so thought I'd give it a try. Im not good a explaining things but here is What I've done to check everything that I could think of is, after making sure the table is level I took a machinist squire checked a 1/2" bit chucked, on all sides it was flush on all four sides of the bit. I used a vise that I got at Woodcraft. I did try a different clamp. I always drill at I believe around 1200 rpm. I'm starting to think I'm getting some deflection as I start to drill. The hole is at least 1/16" off center on exit.

Thanks again everyone
Jack
 

Randy_

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OK, Jack. That is a good start. You did not mention if this is a problem that has just started or noticed or is one that has been with you for a while? What size holes were you drilling when you had the problem? Are we talking a 7mm drill bit or a bigger one like 1/2�?

Anyway, just because the table is perpendicular to the drill bit, does not mean that the blank is properly oriented relative to the drill bit. There may be a problem with the vise not being parallel and perpendicular and it is also possible that the blank is not lined up exactly right in the vise. Also a possibility is some play on the vise that allows the blank to move when the blank is drilled.

First off let's find out what kind of vise you have. Is it one of those pen vises made specifically for drilling pen blanks or is it a more general purpose vise like a machinist’s vise? Next let me say that being off by a 16th is not that much of a problem. It could be better; but it could also be a lot worse. I did a little math and being off by that amount is the equivalent of an error of only 1.5 degrees.

Let's assume for the moment that it is a pen vise. When you secure a blank in the vise, is it firmly held in place or does it move around a little due to slack in the vise itself? If there is slack in the vise are there any nuts, bolts or screws that can be tightened up to reduce or eliminate the slack? Another possibility if it is the pen vise is that the grove in the jaws of the vise is not cut exactly vertical and the blank is being held at a slight angle to the base of the vise.

This may be a little tricky to do; but, mount a blank in your vise and then move the vise on the table so a vertical face of the blank rests against the side of the drill bit that has been extended down onto drilling position. Do this for all four faces. Just like when you were checking the table with the machinists square, the faces of the blank should touch the edge of the drill bit and be uniform along the entire contact…should be no gap at the top or bottom. The idea here being to see if the vise is holding the blank in such a position that the drill bit is parallel to the faces of the blank. When moving the vise around. Try not to rotate it; but keep it in the same relative orientation…ie handle always to the left to the right or to the front… whatever you choose. If there are some gaps then the blank is not being held properly. Depending upon where the gaps are, you can put some shims on the bottom of the base of the vise to correct the misalignment. (You could also return the vise, but these vises have a rep for not being exactly perfect and the replacement may very well have the same problem.)

Another way to deal with a vise misalignment would be to make up some dummy blanks out of scrap wood(assuming you have the tools to do so) and put some reference marks on the test blanks. Then drill 2 or 3 of them and note the direction of the drilling error at the bottom of the blank. Add thin shims to the bottom of the vise in the direction that the drill is trying to wander and that will push the hole back toward the center of the blank. You may have to do this several times and play with the thickness of the shims a little before you get the hole back in the center of the blank; but it is really much simpler to do than it is to read about it. I hope all of this is not too confusing. If so, holler, and I will try to clarify.
 
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