Drill Bit Cheating Tool/Lookup

[webmonk]

I've written a tool that I need some feedback on. It's designed to help you figure out which drill bits are close to the one you need so that those of us who like to "sneak by" don't have to buy yet another bit.

Here's how it works:
Select your bit size, set your tolerances, and click the Cheat! button. You'll get back a list of bits within the range you set, their sizes, the variation from the size you need, and (if you're logged in to the system and have your bit collection stored) which of those bits you actually have.

You can get there just by going to http://www.penventory.com and clicking the Drillbit Cheating link near the bottom of the page (you don't have to be a member or log in to use it.)

Try it out and send me some feedback! I'm specifically looking for ways to make it more user friendly, show results in the least confusing way possible, and find out from those in the know what a general rule of thumb for "acceptable" tolerances would be.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I don't see the point. For most applications, pens and otherwise, the right size is the only correct choice.

 

[Geo in Winnipeg]

I think a drill bit size chart (the one with the decimal equivalents - HUT?) would be just as easy and maybe quicker than running to the computer to check. I don't have a computer in my shop. JMHO

 

[webmonk]

I certainly agree that "the right tool for the job" is a great creed to have and follow, especially as a pro or money is no object. However, if you're a hobbiest like many of us who do this just to enjoy ourselves you can afford to be a little less dogmatic if it means real cost savings.

Here's a simple "for instance":
7mm is different from J by only .001" and 3/8" is different from V by .002" and 10mm is different from X by .003". If you already have the letter set you can do a large number of kits without buying those three extra bits.

And sure, after you've been turning a while you accumulate a bunch of tools and will probably have what you need anyway. However, as a new turner I know that one of the biggest factors I have when choosing the next pen kit to try is what else do I have to buy (and more importantly, how much is it going to cost). If I can live with a couple thousandths variation I can save money on tools and apply it toward things like new kits and interesting blanks that will continue to keep it fun on the cheap!

 

[webmonk]

That's a good point, George!

I do have a PC in my shop (for streaming in music, looking up techniques, watching the tutorial videos I've found, etc.), but that's beside the point.

Where it's really useful for me is in the planning stage. I'm sure I'm the only one who does this, but when I'm at work during the day I spend a lot of time browsing the web looking for the next project. Having an interactive version of the drill reference chart you mentioned has proven quite handy.

Thanks for the input!

 

[clewless]

Hate to be a curmudgeon but a "system" like this for comparing drill bits is nonsense...[]oops, wrong thread. I meant overkill.[]

I have copies of the Hut chart in the shop and the house so I can see all of the various sizes at a glance. There are still things in life that don't need to be computerized....

Remember the good old days, when computer program manuals were paper and you could read them anywhere/anytime you had an opportunity.

PS Is it ok to oil your drill bits with WD-40 or will they rust? [][}] Running for cover.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Originally posted by webmonk
<br />I certainly agree that "the right tool for the job" is a great creed to have and follow, especially as a pro or money is no object. However, if you're a hobbiest like many of us who do this just to enjoy ourselves you can afford to be a little less dogmatic if it means real cost savings.

Here's a simple "for instance":
7mm is different from J by only .001" and 3/8" is different from V by .002" and 10mm is different from X by .003". If you already have the letter set you can do a large number of kits without buying those three extra bits.

And sure, after you've been turning a while you accumulate a bunch of tools and will probably have what you need anyway. However, as a new turner I know that one of the biggest factors I have when choosing the next pen kit to try is what else do I have to buy (and more importantly, how much is it going to cost). If I can live with a couple thousandths variation I can save money on tools and apply it toward things like new kits and interesting blanks that will continue to keep it fun on the cheap!

You are echoing my oft-repeated 'weirdo drill bit size' rant. Acquiring the needed sizes is, indeed, an added expense. But, if you want to do pens correctly, 99% of the time you must spend that money and go with the manufacturers reccomendation. I don't like it and never will accept it as anything other than a 'forced option' by the industry.

 

[kenwc]

I like the idea Webmonk. I've needed to know that very thing in the past and will again.

I like how you plow through and keep developing even though you get the random folks who might immediately poo poo a new idea. There are functions within most applications that you might use all the time or might never use. It took me years of thinking I'd never use pivot tables in Excel but now I use them every day. Not the greatest analogy but it works for me.

Keep developing...

 

[webmonk]

Thanks for the encouragement, Ken!

I don't mind the negative critiques. After all, if all we ever got was praise we'd never be able to improve!

 

[schaf]

Maybe it is to early in the day or I am thick.
Could you please explain the meaning of low limit and high limit tolerance.
Thanks

 

[webmonk]

Sure! It's just a way to tell the system how much bigger or smaller drill bits could be and still work for our task.

For instance, let's say you have a project where the hole SHOULD be an O size (0.316"). You don't have that one, but when you measure the tube you see that you could get by with something just a little smaller (let's say 0.002" smaller) and still have a good, but snug fit. You could also get by with drilling a little larger hole (we'll say 0.010" bigger) and using more glue or an expanding glue to take up the space. So now that you have those numbers, you use them as your tolerance settings - Low: 0.002 and High: 0.010. What we find is that the system shows us two bits that are within our range, the 8mm (0.001 smaller) and the P (0.007 larger). If we have either of those bits then we don't have to run down to the hardware store.

Hope that helps!

 

[Penmonkey]

I'll say that I think this is a good program because some bits (like an O bit) are slightly too big for many kits that call for them.
John, thanks for helping us cheat.[]
It will help me.

 

[Tuba707]

Its a good idea, Jon, and if people don't find it useful, then it means less bandwidth being used, right?

I found it useful. Easier than using the calculator to convert inches into decimal.

 

[hilltopper46]

I like the program. I only wish it was something I could have out in the shop with me. However, even when considering how important it is to buy or order a new bit, I can use it. I hope you will leave available on your web site.

 

[Rmartin]

Anything that brings together my two loves, the computer and woodworking, gets the thumbs up from me. Excellent work.

 

[stevers]

Thats pretty cool. Just tried a sample size. The whole point for me is, I would use it when "buying" a bit for a new model of pen I was going to make. Now I can find out if I have it in my shop and continue with my order.
It does mean one trip to the shop as I do all of my ordering from my office, but it could save me $5 or $10. Not having to buy that special drill bit could be very nice. Especially sense some of them don't fit all that great anyway. Cant remember which one, but one of the Jr. Gent sizes could be smaller and fit better. Been a while sense I made a Gent.
Nice work and nice effort to make things easier for us. And yourself of course.

 

[Randy_]

Jon: I put together a little chart to compare drill bit recommendations to tube sizes as a method of weeding out questionable measurements submitted to me for my Pen Reference Chart. I don't have that many data points yet; but what I am seeing is most of the recommended drill bits are anywhere from 0.006" to 0.013" larger than the tube size. These are predominantly CSUSA recommendations and I have no idea if Berea and PSI hold to tighter or looser tolerances. There were one or two kits where the recommendation was about 0.20" over. I have not done any experiments of my own to get a handle on what the optimum clearance should. Seems fair to postulate that the correct clearance might be different for different types of glue??

 

[webmonk]

Thanks for all the comments so far!

@hilltopper46: It'll be there for ya!

@Rmartin: I hear ya! I'll have to post a picture or two of my shop sometime. Powertools mixed with computers - complete with wi-fi and surround sound.

@stevers: If you create an account you can store all the sizes of bits you have so that whenever you use the look-up tool it'll indicate which of those bits you already have, thus, saving you a trip to the shop.

Randy_: Sounds reasonable to me. I'd very much like to see the data you've collected once you compile it.


BTW, I added one thing to it because of something I came across today when experimenting with some closed end stuff. I knew the size of the hole I needed so I was then tasked with figuring out which bit that would take. It only took a few minutes to figure out, but now it will only take a few seconds. There's a new blank next to the size pulldown where you can just type in the decimal you're looking for. The system will give you the closest match plus those within the tolerance you've selected.

 

[stevers]

Thanks Jon, I'll look into it more in the next couple nights.

 

[Pipes]

Seems like there is more computer working going on than simple wood working ? Maybe its just me ! I would be aggravated looking stuf up on a computer to make a pen ! all ya need is a simple digital micrometer and your cheating as good and a lot simpler IMO ..But Iam kina simple at times anyway...

Just looks to me like a lot a guys are doing an awful lot a computer work and not enough wood working [].

Let see we need a program to find our wood and pen kits and now one to tell us how or what drill to use if we don't got the right bit for a kit !

can't making enough saw dust spending it on a computer :O) But then Iam in the stone age still whata I know []

Maybe a PC a replace my old woodshop teacher someday and just tell ya to go sand it some more :O) []...

pipes []

 

[Randy_]

Originally posted by webmonk
<br />.....Randy_: Sounds reasonable to me. I'd very much like to see the data you've collected once you compile it.....

I'll send what I have now. It's very incomplete; but there may be something of use in there for you.

 

[webmonk]

@pipes:
Hehe! Sure seems that way doesn't it? And for lots of people it may be true that looking things up on a computer would only slow them down, but for me (and the type of people I'm around on a daily basis) it works just the opposite. The computer is the essential reason I get any quality woodworking done!

I do 11 hours at the day job as a programmer (counting prep, commute, lunch, etc.), another 4 at night running a web development/consulting business, plus my usual 6 hours of sleep for a total of 3 hours left in a day to enjoy my hobbies (oh, and eat and play with the lady too - luckily she's a turner or I might never see the lathe! ) While the details of my day aren't typical, the overall result is very typical of many people today when you substitute my stuff with family, shopping, etc. - we just don't have much time for fun!

So... If I can't throw more time at it, all I can do is spend that time as efficiently as possible to make the most of it - and that's the power of a computer/internet. Sure, I could go out to the shop and sift through boxes of blanks, find kits, remember to write down things for the accounting, and all the little things that need to be done, but how much time would that eat up? Even if I'm only saving 15 minutes a night, that's still 15 extra minutes I can spend actually turning. Hmm, I think I'll sand it some more!

 

[bradh]

I think this program is a great idea. I gladly substitute a drill that is a few thousands of an inch different to save $10. There is no difference when working with wood and filling the tiny extra gap with glue.
Brad

 

[Ron Mc]

I like this idea a lot! I can think of a pen kit right off the top of my head that I would love to try a slightly smaller drill bit for and this will assist in knowing which bit I need.[]