Dimension Question

[CountryPens]

I just completed 5 pen / pencil sets from CSUSA. They are the European style round top. Very happy with everything until I assembled them. There seems to be a lot of play between the pen refill (Cross Type )and the inside diameter of the metal tip. I am getting plenty of extention when the pen is in the open position. The pencil seems OK. I have checked them against other pens that I have made such as Slimlines, American Elagance, Streamlines, Click Tops and "Berea" European's. They are noticably worse.

Has anyone else noticed the excessive "slop" with this particular pen - ( CSUSA - European Pen / Pencil set ). It is very disapointing after all the work to have a pen that feels "Cheap" Is there any solution to this other than "Get Over It"

Thanks for any help
Lester Moore

 

[Randy_]

I'd put in an email or call to CSUSA. Maybe they got some bad tips?? Their customer service is quite good. I'm sure they will do everything possible to resolve your difficulties.

I can think of a number of things one might try to remediate the problem; but none of them would be simple nor worth the effort IMO.

 

[CountryPens]

Randy,

I would be interested in hearing your ideas. Im willing to put some more work in these if I have to.

Thanks,
Lester

 

[Nolan]

I don't know if this will help but I had the same problem going the other way. I bought some Fine point cross style refills for a customer who wanted fine instead of med. and when I went to extend the filler and it would not go through the tip. (slimline kit not CSUSA) I pulled out the filler and compared it to the one that came with the kit and the part that has the ball in it was noticeably bigger. I ordered different brand Cross type filler and it is perfect. My conclusion is different filler manufactures have different tolerances and or specs. Hope this helps.

Nolan

 

[Randy_]

Originally posted by CountryPens
<br />Randy,I would be interested in hearing your ideas. Im willing to put some more work in these if I have to. Thanks,Lester

The method would depend a little on how big the problem is. Do you have any way of actually measuring the dia. of the hole in the tip and the dia. of the tip of the refill?

 

[Randy_]

Originally posted by CountryPens
<br />Randy,I would be interested in hearing your ideas. I'm willing to put some more work in these if I have to. Thanks,Lester

The method would depend a little on how big the problem is. Do you have any way of actually measuring the dia. of the hole in the tip and the dia. of the tip of the refill?

I took a bunch of measurements on the Parker refill and some of the generic brands and found that the true Parker was a few thousandths larger than the generics. Don't know if this is true for the Cross refills or not; but the first thing I would do is see how a real Cross refill fits. If it is OK, I would just substitute Cross refills since that is what your customers are going to be buying when they need a new cartridge.

 

[Daniel]

I have a European twist pen from CSUSA right next to me. I don't have any movement at the writing tip. sounds to me like the refill suggestions are on the right track.

 

[CountryPens]

Good idea Randy, but it did not work. I picked up a 2-pack of actual "Cross" refills and a 2-pack of an office depot brand. They both measured - .075" / .076" O.D. just like the ones that came with the CSUSA kits. I plan to speak to CSUSA on Friday. Not much can be done a this point, I may send them one of my pens so they can measure the I.D. on the tip. It is far too much "slop". Something I will watch on all kits I receive in the future.

I do appreciate the input.

Lester

 

[Randy_]

OK, Lester, how far do you want to go? The next simplest thing that occurs to me is to build up the inside of the tip with CA glue. Coat the tip of an ink cartridge with Vaseline or chapstick or some other light grease. Then lightly wipe it off so there is only a very thin film of material in the tip. Then reassemble the pen. Twist the cap until the ball of the ink cartridge is just even with end of the tip of the pen. Put a tiny drop of CA in the tip and then quickly fully extend the refill. Let the CA dry....several hours if not overnight. Next day, remove the cap and work the refill loose by gently twisting it. When you get the refill out, thoroughly clean it with a solvent of some sort to remove the grease and any pieces of CA. If everything goes according to plan the pen tip will have a coating of CA that will create a very tight fit with the refill.....probably too tight. You will probably need to ream out the tip just a tiny bit to get some clearance for the refill tip. I would do that job by hand with a 1/16" twist drill....0.062". You are not trying to drill out the tip, just abrading off a thousandth or two to provide a little clearance for the refill tip. A 5/64" bit is 0.0781"; but I would not try to drill out the tip as you might destroy the CA coating.

having gone through all of this, let me warn you that this is just an idea. I have never tried this and don't know if it will really work or not.

If the CA idea doesn't appeal to you, you could try to find some very thin brass shim stock.....try a hobby shop....and cut a little piece and glue it in the tip. You can get SS as thin as 0.001". As I said earlier, both of these methods will be a PITA to try and may not work. Hopefully, CSUSA will be able to get you some tips that are a better fit.

 

[Ryan]

If you are talking about the little bit of space between the refill and the inside of the the nib. Don't worry about it. You will spend way more time and effort than it is worth.

I have made a bunch of these and never even paid attention to the space there. No one else has either. You will not even notice it when you are writting with it.

I am always more concerned about my finish quality which the customer will notice.

Ryan

 

[Charles]

I'm in agreement with Ryan. Hand the pen out and see if your friend notices if he doesn't your customer probably won't.

 

[Randy_]

Originally posted by Ryan<br />

1. If you are talking about the little bit of space between the refill and the inside of the the nib. Don't worry about it. You will spend <b>way more time and effort than it is worth</b>.

2. You will <b>not even notice </b>it when you are writting with it.

As to #1, I agree totally with Ryan and even made a similar statement in my earlier message. Just not an easy thing to correct.

As to #2, If Lester hadn't noticed the problem, he would not have had cause to ask the question?? You have probably been lucky, Ryan, and not had a pen with a real loose tip. Fact is that a loose tip is very annoying and the first thing I notice when I write with a BP or RB pen.

 

[CountryPens]

I have a request into CSUSA to replace 5 tips for me. I did come up with a way to measure with some accuracy the I.D. of the tips. I took a tooth pick and slide it into the tip while turning it and just kept working it to "form" the tooth pick O.D. sized to the tip I.D. Then I used Dial Calipers to measure the tooth pick O.D.

It was obvious that there were variations in the tips. I found over .010" diff in the tip I.D.'s. Obviously, the largers ones are the ones that feel "poor quality" when using the pen. Hope they will replace them for me. I will just put them in my bench vise and pull out the bad ones and replace them with new ones. I may have to make a tool with clearance over the transmission to re-press the new ones in, but that won't be bad

Thanks for the feedback guys,
Lester

 

[Randy_]

WOW!!! That is terrible. I would guess that in a worst case scenario the clearance should be no more than half of that. Don't know why I didn't think of it before; but when I get in the shop, I will measure a good one to see how it measures out.

I figured the guys at CSUSA would take care of you!!

 

[Randy_]

I went back and picked out the first pen I ever made.....a PSI 24k slimline out of native Texas Mesquite. I used the same toothpick method of measurement for the sake of uniformity and had the following result. The cartridge tip measured 0.0765" and the toothpick measured 0.0785" for a difference of 0.002". That means there is a 0.001" clearance between the nib and the tip if it is perfectly centered.....much more in line with what I was expecting. Clearly, Lester just got some bad hardware.

P.S. I was a little careless on the sanding of my first pen.....didn't know any better at the time.....and used the black 600 grit wet/dry sandpaper. All of the open grain was/is filled with black sanding dust. I was quite disappointed with the situation when it occurred; but after a time I actually decided that I liked the effect. It sort of hi-lites the grain and makes it more noticeable!!