Did I Make a BIG Mistake? Advice for the New Guy

Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
Status
Not open for further replies.

jhelminski

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2006
Messages
28
Location
.
Okay, I have read the books, purchased all the equipment, pen kits, blanks and finishing supplies. This weekend I turn my first pen (Slim line, since I am told this style is the easiest). Can you old pros give me a few pointers:

1) Where the frustration factor will kick in.
2) Most common beginner mistakes.
3) Most difficult part turning a pen.
4) After slim line pens what should be next.
5) Words of wisdom

-Jim
 
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad

vick

Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2004
Messages
1,447
Location
Gilbert, AZ, USA.
1) ?
2) wood short or flush of the trimmings, bad sanding finishing
3) probably finishing
4) Cigar is my recomendation fo rnext they are cheap pretty easy and give you 2 drastically different sized pens. Or try the Baron or Jr gents if you want to go to a rollerball.
5) Read everything you can on the forum and read Russ's pen turning instructions http://www.woodturner-russ.com/Pen10.html
 

alamocdc

Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2005
Messages
7,970
Location
San Antonio, Texas, USA.
1) Getting in a hurry... with turning the blank, or with sanding, or with finishing. You won't be happy with the results if you violate any of these.

The rest... what Mike said.
 

JimGo

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2005
Messages
6,498
Location
North Wales, PA
Jim,
You're already getting WAY too worked up! Expect to blow up your first set of blanks, and possibly your first few. This will probably be due to a few problems, including dull tools and poor glue joints/insufficient glue, but may also just be due to a good, healthy catch. It's just gonna happen, and you may as well accept it (I had a starter kit from PSI, and lost 50% of my half-blanks). Most of the time, this will happen after you've rough turned to a cylinder, and just as you're taking the last cut before switching over to sand paper. If it comes off in two or three relatively large chunks, you may be able to glue it back together using CA if you're careful, and any large gaps can be filled with shavings or dust.

That being said, my tips are:
1) Make sure you cut each blank slightly oversized so you can use a barrel trimmer, sander, etc. to square the blanks to the tubes.
2) Drill with a backer block until you get the feel for your drill press, this way you'll be less likely to have the hole shatter as the bit exits at the bottom.
3) Pick your drill bit size based on the glue you're using - if you're using CA, use the recommended size. If you're using Poly (e.g., Gorilla Glue), you might want to go up 1/64", since poly needs a little room to expand.
4) No matter how dry it may feel, Poly glue needs at least 8-10 hours to dry.
5) Remember to square the blanks to the tubes before you start turning (one of my most frequently overlooked steps)
6) Sharpen your tools before you start each pen.
7) Go slowly, and take light cuts.
8) If you have to press hard with the tool, it's probably dull or you aren't using it correctly.
9) One of my more controversial suggestions - start with a skew, and learn to use it. You'll be glad you did.
10) Since you're making slimlines, don't start with a "bushing-to-bushing" slimline shape. Start with one that doesn't include a centerband (see http://www.woodturnerruss.com) and give yourself a little more room to play. Slimlines require you to turn away everything but approximately 1/32 or 1/64" of wood, which doesn't leave you much room for errors.
11) Don't sand for too long. Heat is the enemy of most woods at the thicknesses we're working with.
12) Make sure you have some MicroMesh on hand.
13) Pick a finishing technique you want to try, and stick with it for at least five or six pens.
14) Be sure to post pictures of your pens and ask lots of questions!

As for what to try next, I actually don't recommend slimlines for the reasons I mentioned above. I like cigars for beginners because they look a little more impressive (IMHO) and they have more wood. So, cigars are a great next step, especially since they are pretty inexpensive. But, depending on your taste, you might want to try either a Sierra or a Jr. Gent/Baron kit next. The Sierras are nice because they are a single body, and the Baron/Jr. Gent pens are very classy looking. Spend your money on good quality platings, rather than the cheap stuff, and you'll be glad. I have a bunch of the cheaper 10K kits and I'm trying to decide how I'm going to get rid of/use them.

Good luck!
 

leehljp

Member Liaison
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
9,326
Location
Tunica, Mississippi,
1. Depending on your skill level and background - several items come to mind.
a. Do you have a woodworking background and general tool usage? Or, do you have a mechanical mindset? If not, then tool usage and feel will not seem a problem until several mistakes have happened. Woodworking background does help gain the feel of working with chisels and cuts. It is different from using a saw, but the working relationship of wood and tools carries certain qualities forth into pen turning, often including how to troubleshoot different kinds of problems.

b. For some, the sanding and smoothing cause problems with the finish that is not recognized until later. For fine furniture makers / woodworkers, this sanding is more natural. Rarely does a piece of furniture need the kind of sanding that pens require, but the basics are already acomplished for woodworkers and _easily_ overlooked or dismissed by non woodworkers.

c. Finish. What kind of finish do you want? Do you have allergies to certain finishes or wood? CA and CA/BLO finishes require patience and practice to give consistently shiny finishes. Some use different kinds of finishes and like the oil based finish. They are generally easier, provided sanding is done fine.

d. Keeping the chisels SHARP. The tendency is to focus on the pen turning. Focus on keeping a sharp chisel. Turning will be a lot easier. Invest some time in learning how to sharpen the tools and set up a routine for sharpening them in the middle of turning a pen. It will pay off.

e. Drilling the holes. I have been woodworking off and on for 40+ years. Drilling holes in delicate situations is easier for me because of past experience. But this is where many people have "blowouts". Everyone will have blowouts, some more than others. Technique is the key. (They occur on the mandrel too.) But drilling too fast a rate, drilling too much before backing out, causing too much heat from too high a speed.

3( the most difficult time in turning a pen was two fold for me: 1. At the beginning trying to get the corners turned off. 2. Using enough CA when turning a narrow pen or brittle wood.

Other things that helped me:
I buy pack of 100 or so latex gloves to use in applying CA. Really helps. You WILL get the glue on your hand. Gloves help me a lot!

These are just my thoughts and opinions.
 

rfreeouf

Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2005
Messages
96
Location
lees summit, missouri, USA.
I am fairly new to pen turning. In fact I have been turning for about a month.

To start off I bought Cigar Pens Kits. I think they are good choice to start out. I order mine from Arizona Silhouette which are real reasonable. You can find there site under the links forum.

I think the thing that helped me is I ordered the following DVD set from Lee Valley Pen Turning With Rex and Kip (disk one and two.) Here is also a discussion about the videos on the form http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11624&SearchTerms=KIP,AND,REX

The Videos I felt were benificial and actual go through making different styles of pens.

The other thing I would suggest is when you order your kits order some extra tubes to just to practice with. That really helped me get familiar with using my woodturning tools. The gouge was fairly easy to use and get use. Using the skew was took a little longer which just meant a little more practice.

The other thing is you migh do asearch and check out it there are some local woodturning clubs in your area. There is one I am planning to attend next Monday that Bob A. let me know about. The meeting is a little ways accross town but it is worth the trip to meet new people and learn more about woodturning.

The other thing is frequent the forums read and ask question. This is site is a good resource and plenty of people are willing to help.
 

thetalbott4

Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2005
Messages
691
Location
Roy, Utah, USA.
Jim - I have been turning pens for almost 3 years now and i am still trying to figure stuff out. I havent been to any traditional classes, just read and practice. The point is this...it takes time and practice! Dont let yourself get down about the initial screw ups if they occur. You may find it's not as bad as you think. I had never touched a lathe before mine showed up in the mail along with kits and blanks and I never screwed up anything until 10 or 12 pens into making them.

You might consider starting with a friction polish finish only because it's easy and looks nice. It doesnt hold up long and you need to learn better finishes, but you also need some success at first to get your confidence level up. Walk before you run. If you cant figure out why problems occur (if they do), then take pictures and post the problem after doing a search on the topic (chances are it's been discussed before). Folks around here are happy to help and it may even start a good fight.[;)]
 

pete00

Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Messages
1,523
Location
methuen, massachusetts, USA.
Jim
NO you didnt make a big mistake. This is fun as well as work.
Only thing i didnt see mentioned was a turning video. As long as you spent, you can fill in the blank ------.-- that much money. go buy one and watch it.

Have fun first and dont worry about how your doing..... just do it!! [:D][:D][:D]
 

wudwrkr

Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2005
Messages
545
Location
Newark, CA, USA.
Jim,
You've been given lots of good advice to digest. I have one other point to add. Make sure the live center you have for your lathe has a 60 degree taper. Most live centers for wood are 30 degrees and do not match up well to the mandrel. This will produce wobble, runout and out of round issues. I struggled through my first 10 pens or so wondering what I was doing wrong and it wasn't until finding this site that I figured out about the live center issue.

Have a great time this weekend. Don't get too frustrated and you will find yourself addicted like the rest of us!!
 

leehljp

Member Liaison
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
9,326
Location
Tunica, Mississippi,
Originally posted by wudwrkr
<br />Jim,
You've been given lots of good advice to digest. I have one other point to add. Make sure the live center you have for your lathe has a 60 degree taper. Most live centers for wood are 30 degrees and do not match up well to the mandrel. This will produce wobble, runout and out of round issues. I struggled through my first 10 pens or so wondering what I was doing wrong and it wasn't until finding this site that I figured out about the live center issue.

Have a great time this weekend. Don't get too frustrated and you will find yourself addicted like the rest of us!!

What Dave said: a 60° live center makes a huge difference. Get one and you won't regret it.
 

Johnathan

Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
1,512
Location
Vacaville, California, USA.
5) Just have fun. This art/hobby is a blast. You will learn very quickly that there is so much to learn and that's the best part. You will never stop learning new techniques, there will always be someone better than you that can help. [8D]
 

Daniel

Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2004
Messages
5,921
Location
Reno, NV, USA.
Jim
1. This one can set off at most any time, that's what is so fun about it, it takes you by suprise. blank blowing out from drilling, blank blowing out from turning.
a couple of sure frustrators are, be sure to not pay very strict attention to the advice around here about sharp tools. this will creat frustration with generally getting a tool to cut. but then ad to that the out of round barrel and what not.
second, getting that nice straight final cut on a slimline barrel is a real gut wrencher your first time around. starts looking like a toothpick and you just know you are going to see brass any second. Relax you most likely will.

2. Dull Tools. Second, Dull tools. Third, wasting money on makeshift ways to sharpen dull tools. lastly don't tighten the nut on the mandrel to tight.

3. Finishing, you can spend around an hour turning that first pen. Then you can spend the next week just picking and learning the finish you want on it. But luckely you will most likely get a lot of milage on this one, cause after you muff up that first attempt you get to pick anouther one and try again.

4. The Gent pen or other variation, cause your first pen should have been a cigar. you'll see what I mean when you get done with that slimline. Seriously. the slimline is fine for your first pen. I always think it is a bit harder than the cigar due to the mental factor that itty bitty barrel can have on a first timer. My first pen was a slimline and I had to keep shutting off the lathe and catching my breath.

5. Relax, take your time, keep a cup of coffee near (Not to close some of the sawdust tastes real nasty) and enjoy. Don't make your first pen out of Burl of any kind. Finally use sharp tools. The tormek or wolverine systems are worth there weight in gold.
 

jeff

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 5, 2003
Messages
8,971
Location
Westlake, OH, USA.
Have you ever used a lathe before? If not, make sure you review some safety guidelines before you do. You'll be focused on the pen, and it's easy to get into an unsafe situation with you fingers and clothes close to a spinning mandrel.

Here is a link to the AAW lathe safety page.
http://www.woodturner.org/resources/safety.cfm

Pay extra close attention to points 1 through 20 [:D]
 

Randy_

Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2004
Messages
5,701
Location
Dallas suburb, Texas, USA.
Yeah, and if you haven't done any turnimg, cut up a scrap 2x4 in to some smaller pieces and practice with them for a while before using a good piece of wood. As one or two others pointed out, I think the cigar pen is a better starter kit than the slimline. Have fun!!!
 

arioux

Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2005
Messages
1,734
Location
Terrebonne, Quebec, Canada.
Hi Jim,

Pretty new myself, but i can tell you that this site is the best place to learn. You had lots of good advice. The best one i think was the one about Russ's site. This is where i learn the most. Second PSI has a free DVD that will show you some basic about the slim line. Just follow this link
http://www.pennstateind.com/store/_free-dvd.html. Seeing a pen made is actually very efficient. Finally, follow Jeff advice about safety, this thing IS DANGEROUS and can hurt you pretty bad (voice of experience here [:(!])and Randy advice, practice, practice and practice (i used cheap 1 inch round dowel to begin with). The rest is just having pure fun and come back here often.

Have fun,

Alfred
 

esheffield

Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2004
Messages
176
Location
Christiansburg, VA, USA.
Lots of good advice. One other thing you might try that worked well for me - I took a penturning class at a nearby Woodcraft store. If you have one close to you maybe look into that. I start about 1 1/2 years ago, but have only been at it on and off and haven't made a whole lot of them. But I found it to be kinda like what they say about the game "Othello" - minutes to learn, a lifetime to master! I've been getting pretty good results right from the start, which was nice since if I'd had a lot of trouble up front I probably wouldn't still be at it when I get the chance. But I always find things that I can improve as well. And I'll bet most everyone else here will say about the same thing! So give it a try, keep it safe, take your time, and enjoy!
 

Scott

Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2003
Messages
2,689
Location
Blackfoot Idaho
1) Where the frustration factor will kick in.

Frustration will kick in when you run out of people to give pens to, and have to start selling pens to dispose of your stock!

2) Most common beginner mistakes.

The most common beginner mistake is to not begin turning pens. Once you start you will do fine!

3) Most difficult part turning a pen.

The most difficult part is to stop! Once you get started, you may find yourself staying up until 3 in the morning, just turning away! It’s either that, or figuring out what you’re going to do with all your now-useless woodworking equipment. If it doesn’t feed the lathe, it is now useless!

4) After slim line pens what should be next.

Do you really need anything else? ;-) Actually, I would suggest the cigar pen for a beginner, with the slimline second, but at least try the cigar pretty soon. Then I like the Sierra pen. Then the Baron. Really from there it’s just a matter of which pen kits are on sale at your favorite dealer!

5) Words of wisdom

Just keep turning!

Scott.
 

OSCAR15

Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
Messages
479
Location
Winder, Ga, USA.
Tried several suppliers...Happiest with Pen State Industries. Also, as was pointed out here, you can get a free DVD on turning pens...Highly recommended. It is enough info to show you the way to get started.
Other than that, follow safety issues and above all..have fun! OSCAR
Here is an example of cigar pen.....
2006320134010_BLACKWOODCIGAR.jpg
 

OSCAR15

Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
Messages
479
Location
Winder, Ga, USA.
Tried several suppliers...Happiest with Pen State Industries. Also, as was pointed out here, you can get a free DVD on turning pens...Highly recommended. It is enough info to show you the way to get started.
Other than that, follow safety issues and above all..have fun! OSCAR
Here is an example of cigar pen.....
2006320134010_BLACKWOODCIGAR.jpg
 

OSCAR15

Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
Messages
479
Location
Winder, Ga, USA.
Tried several suppliers...Happiest with Pen State Industries. Also, as was pointed out here, you can get a free DVD on turning pens...Highly recommended. It is enough info to show you the way to get started.
Other than that, follow safety issues and above all..have fun! OSCAR
Here is an example of cigar pen.....
2006320134010_BLACKWOODCIGAR.jpg
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom