Cracking Nib ends when assembling

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kenlholley

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Apr 15, 2013
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Lets start by saying I am really starting to not like acrylics. I am still taking orders for pink cancer pens at work. My problem is that during assembly, no matter how careful I am, the nib ends crack. I deburr the tubes and make sure there is no glue inside. The nibs never seem to go in straight and I am constantly adjusting them as they are pressed in. If I make it past the nib end, I usually am OK. Any suggestions? I use a hand clamp to press the pen parts together.
 
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ed4copies

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A hand clamp is a bad idea, but if you must, use a wood hand clamp and put a hole in one of the wood arms. Then use it vertically.

I use a arbor press and I get rid of the normal metal "table" immediately. Replace it with a piece of corian, the same diameter. Then, drill a few holes in the corian. The nib of a slimline is .333" at the top, so if one of the holes is about a quarter inch, you can stick the nib in the hole and it will hold the piece vertically. Still be careful, but this keeps the nib from tipping while you apply pressure.
 

thewishman

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I moved from the hand clamp to an arbor press as quickly as i could afford one. Just about any type of press would be better, so you can see and adjust the process as it goes.

Until you get a better press, I would recommend that you sand the inside of the tube until the nib slides in, use epoxy or locktite to attach the part. Just be sure to use a Qtip to wipe out the extra glue before you press the transmission in. A guy I know had the refill stuck in the nib because "he" forgot to clean out the extra glue.:redface:
 

robersonjr

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I had this problem also with the Cancer Pens, tried all the above but some plastics still crack until: I started pressing the nib in the metal tube before gluing it into the blank. I remove the nib and make sure that when I glue it into the blank, the end I had pressed the nib into is aligned with a penciled arrow on the blank to identify this end. When I place this blank on the arbor, I make sure the marked end is at the small bushing. Haven't cracked one since I have been doing this.
 

JD Combs Sr

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Owingsville, KY
I had this problem also with the Cancer Pens, tried all the above but some plastics still crack until: I started pressing the nib in the metal tube before gluing it into the blank. I remove the nib and make sure that when I glue it into the blank, the end I had pressed the nib into is aligned with a penciled arrow on the blank to identify this end. When I place this blank on the arbor, I make sure the marked end is at the small bushing. Haven't cracked one since I have been doing this.
Casual observation to me would indicate that there may be a slight tube or nib sizing problem with these kits especially if multiple craftsmen are having the same problem. RobersonJr's solution sounds like the one I would use if I were having the same problem.
 

ed4copies

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I had this problem also with the Cancer Pens, tried all the above but some plastics still crack until: I started pressing the nib in the metal tube before gluing it into the blank. I remove the nib and make sure that when I glue it into the blank, the end I had pressed the nib into is aligned with a penciled arrow on the blank to identify this end. When I place this blank on the arbor, I make sure the marked end is at the small bushing. Haven't cracked one since I have been doing this.


I wanted to make a video to show some alternatives for this problem.

However, I used a chrome cancer pen with the cancer pink blank and, when I got to assembly, the chrome pen nib slid in very easily. So easily, I turned off the camera and pulled the nib out with my fingers.

So, I am guessing you have a different plating???? Or, are we talking about Penn State's cancer pen, not Berea's???

I'd like to do exactly what you did, so I can try to solve the problem---please help me determine what is different!!!:confused::confused::confused:

Thanks,
Ed
 

edstreet

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No longer confused....
Lets start by saying I am really starting to not like acrylics. I am still taking orders for pink cancer pens at work. My problem is that during assembly, no matter how careful I am, the nib ends crack. I deburr the tubes and make sure there is no glue inside. The nibs never seem to go in straight and I am constantly adjusting them as they are pressed in. If I make it past the nib end, I usually am OK. Any suggestions? I use a hand clamp to press the pen parts together.

20 questions to follow,

Why acrylics? Is this problem not happening with non-acrylics or something?

WHEN do you deburr?

HOW do you deburr?

Can I see a photo or 3+ of the damage?

What type of glue are you using on the tubes?

HOW and with WHAT do you trim the ends?


The low down on this problem is this. There is a serious lack of information to obtain what the problem is. I can think of a good dozen possibilities here given your statement but with out more information the only thing that can be given is speculation.

Cracks happen for many reasons and there are always tattle-tail signs on the blank, and tooling, of what went wrong and why.

Just a few possibilities that I can see.

tube out of round,
glue used is non-flexible on a fragile blank (i.e. true-stone)
radius burrs,
longitudinal burrs,
tube already cracked they just show up when press fit,
rotational pressure while pressing,
out of round blank,
 

kenlholley

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Cape Coral, FL 33914
The kits used are PSI Trimlines and Woodturnningz Saturn style. I deburr immediately before assembling, after all sanding and polishing. I use a barrel trimmer to square the blanks. I drill the blanks slowly cooling the bit often. I start with a smaller size bit, the use the final size bit to finish. I use CA glue to glue in the tubes that have been thoroughly scuffed. The blanks are then set aside until the next day before squaring.

I just received a new order of these blanks and they seem to be a slightly different color,(darker), even though the name is the same, (Pink Sky). I have turned 2 of them so far and they seem almost softer, much less brittle than the previous ones.
 

allisnut

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Oct 18, 2011
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Shelby NC
My experience with the pink sky acrylester blanks is that they are very brittle. I don't remember cracking the few I've made, but turning them took a light touch. I use funline slim kits and a pen press, so alignment may be the root of your problems. I know I have cracked a bunch of different blanks by allowing something to get pressed in out of alignment and stretching the tube.
 

edstreet

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No longer confused....
The kits used are PSI Trimlines and Woodturnningz Saturn style. I deburr immediately before assembling, after all sanding and polishing. I use a barrel trimmer to square the blanks. I drill the blanks slowly cooling the bit often. I start with a smaller size bit, the use the final size bit to finish. I use CA glue to glue in the tubes that have been thoroughly scuffed. The blanks are then set aside until the next day before squaring.

I just received a new order of these blanks and they seem to be a slightly different color,(darker), even though the name is the same, (Pink Sky). I have turned 2 of them so far and they seem almost softer, much less brittle than the previous ones.

One thing really stands out here. That is with the glue.

All to often you will see CA being the magic cure all, fix all glue to use. This is simply not true. Everything has limits, CA glue is no exception. Properties of glue/epoxy is that of flexibility, adhesion strength, debonding properties and others. Flexibility means how well the glue will handle the bonding materials moving. CA is not a flexible glue by no means.

A 'glue' joint bonds 2 materials together. In our case it bonds the tube (rigid, strength and support) to the blank (eye candy can range from soft to very hard). When it comes to brittle materials, esp THIN brittle materials that bond becomes a very big issue.

Picture this. The brass tube is one size, you add a rigid glue and put a fragile blank on it. The more that tube expands/moves the more stress on the blank. Now replace that glue with a gap filling FLEXIBLE glue (epoxy rather ;) ) and now you have the glue dispersing the expansion stress in a larger area thus reducing the impact strength. Much of this motion is absorbed in the glue itself and not passed.

To further account for fragile materials you could drill ever so slight oversized and allow more room for flexibility via the glue joint. You must weigh the expanded drilling size with the amount of 'meat' you can get away with on the blank material.

Now couple what all I just said and throw it on the lathe, add FRICTION HEAT via chisel, sandpaper and the like, you now have thermal expansion to contend with. That brass tube will expand differently than the blank material and all to often will act as another heat source. Before you know it you have material FATIGUE.

Try this. Measure the thickness of the nib that you have problems with and write that down. Now check the thickness of all the other contact points and not the difference. You will find that the nib section you are dealing with the least space, generally.

Other red flags that I see is the barrel trimmer. Trimming afterwards, esp if the blank is thicker on one side than another, you have introduced a stress point and a future crack.

Also as previously mentioned pressing parts together when they are not properly lined up will cause some epic failures. Take note of using the drill press, lathe, bench vise and all sorts of other goodies to press (arbor press, mallet, etc)
 
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