couple celtic knot questions

[KP]

Folks -

After having seen some pics of the celtic knot/double knot style pens, I've got the bug to make one or two of these. I was needing a special present for a friend, so I'm thinking of a desk set, both the pen and a letter opener with the knot.

I've read the tutorials, but still have a couple of questions.

First, my thinnest table saw blade kerf is 1/8 inch. It seems like this will make a kind of thick and chunky knot? Do folks use some other kind of blade? Would a 3/32 thin kerf-type blade make much difference?

Second, does the knot look better on a larger diameter pen? I'd been thinking about using a Berea Streamline American for this particular gift, as my friend doesn't have particularly big hands (woman, average size). An El Grande is somewhat larger but still not huge, and has a nice balance.

Third, what are folks thoughts about colors? A high contrast wood combination seems best, but I am torn between using a dark wood knot on a light wood pen, or the opposite. I am planning to use a gold plating.

I realize this is all opinion, but it's helpful to hear the thoughts of others, especially those with so much experience. This project is going to take a fair bit of effort, so I'd like to take my best shot at making the result worthwhile. Many thanks -

Ken

 

[gerryr]

Obviously you are using a table saw based on the saw kerf. I think there are Diablo blades that are 1/16" that would be much better for this than what you have. I don't think the diameter of the pen makes much difference, what really counts is the thickness of the inlays. A 1/8" slice, at least to me, looks too big on any pen. As far as the kit is concerned, I assume the kit you're thinking of using is the ballpoint and not the rollerball. If it's the rollerball, I would recommend you use the Baron, available only from Arizona Silhouette. The threads on the streamline american rollerball are metal to metal and have a nasty habit of un-threading themselves. The Baron has significantly better threads. As far as colors are concerned, I've done them both ways and it's really a personal preference.

 

[leehljp]

I will address one item not listed here and you probably already know it - but I will mention it anyway. PRACTICE first. Get a piece of pine; make a 3/4 x 3/4 blank (or what size you want to try; Try making the contrasting laminate too.

I know experienced WWers who have not even cut precise laminates 3/32 in thick. Smooth consistent thickness laminate material is a hit and miss deal if one is not experienced first.

I have been woodworking for well over 40 years in one form or another, and learned a long time ago to make practice cuts and glue-ups when trying something new.

By the way, I like thin kerfs and high contrasting kerfs personally, but someone posted a wide kerf (looked like 1/8) with a similar wood to the pen and it looked absolutely beautiful.

 

[gketell]

1) build a sled for your table saw for doing the segmenting. There was a great one on this site that I can't find right now that had replaceable angle blocks so you didn't have to change any saw settings to change the angle of your segments.

2) use the Freud Diablo 7-1/4" blade for the thinnest kerf.

3) the tough part is cutting your segments thin enough safely (if you are trying to do the 3-layer segments you are talking about slices 1/64" thick). Do a google search for vacuum rip fence.

GK

 

[Darley]

Ken look at this

http://tinyurl.com/ytfrd5

 

[rcarman]

I am far from expert but I have made about a dozen Celtic knots. I have made them with barracuda B&D blade slightly under 1/8 and a thin kerf, just barely over a 1/16th. The thicker blade looks pretty good on long pen body like the Sierra. The smaller kerf looks better on the shorter blanks,which is most of the kits. It will make your life a lot less complicated if your insert slices match the thickness of your blade. That way you always replace the same thickness you remove with the saw kerf and your crosses line up better. As mentioned above a sled is a must. Good luck.

 

[KP]

Thanks folks. I plan to pick up one of those Diablo blades tomorrow - only about $15.

I appreciate the link to the site with the vacuum fence. Lots of good stuff there.

Now if I could just decide on what woods to use....at the moment I'm thinking of katalox with canarywood for the knot. The katalox is heavy, closed grain, and dark...but a touch too purple. I have also considered ipe, as I have quite a bit of scraps of this. But it's not quite dark enough and the grain is too showy and will compete with the knot.

Well, I'm allowing myself to be undecided until I have the thin kerf blade, and then SOMETHING is going on the tablesaw.

Ken

 

[gketell]

make a few with whatever you have lieing around. Once you can make good knots every time, THEN switch to your good woods.

Just comments based on experience. [B)]

GK

 

[NewfGuy]

Ken,
Unless I misread your question (which is possible) I think you're misunderstanding the saw kerf problem. It really makes no difference what width kerf you use (other than wasting a small amount of wood), it has more to do with the thickness of the inlay. I normally use my band saw, just because it's handier, since I don't have a decent sled for pen making. I then sand the cuts smooth with my disk sander. I normally use scrap pieces of veneer I save from flatwork to use in pens. Here is a pic of a celtic knot pen using veneer as the inlay. It's not what you take away that as important as what you put back! Does that make sense?

 

[rcarman]

I guess with my method, I use a sled on the tablesaw with a fixed stop. The blank is kept against the stop on the sled to keep the length of the cut in the same place. If you take out more or less than you put back, I would be concerned that the crossing point of the knot would change. Dunno, just my opinion.

 

[leehljp]

Originally posted by NewfGuy
<br /> . . . It's not what you take away that as important as what you put back! Does that make sense?

Good! In my work, and in good communication to groups, you have to say it a dozen different ways for a concept to be understood.

 

[jtate]

I use a hand saw and a miter box. And I do a pretty good knot.

The point of your kerf matching the thickness of your wood inlay is to keep the outer edges of your blank in line and the edges of the interlocking pieces of the circles matching up. You can make sure the pieces of the circles match up by just looking at them carefully when you do your glue up. You may end up with the top part of your blank a little out of line with the bottom part but you're going to turn away the outside of it anyway so who cares?

Just to reiterate, you can do circles that are WAY thicker than the kerf of your blade. The miterbox saw kerf is less than 1/16th of an inch and these circles far exceed that! In the top one I sanwiched maple between purpleheart and used that as the circles in holly and in the other one I think it's just a single slab of purpleheart in holly. I don't have a planer so I take 'em at the width they are when I get them from the cut-off box at Woodcraft.