confused newbie question about kits

[bpjen]

Hey all,

thanks for all that I have already learned from you on this site. It has made the learning curve a lot easier with your willingness to share.

As I have been trying out kits, looking at catalogs and websites, I have gotten a bit confused (which is nothing new for me!) because it looks like there are similar kits sold by different merchants- kits that were made by the same company and sold under different names, etc. Is this the case?

I would like to narrow my selection of kits and merchants down to just a few- which are your favorite kits and where do you get them from?

Any help with sorting out the confusion would be greatly appreciated!

Brian

 

[coach]

Check this out.
http://www.penturners.org/content/penlist1.pdf

It is found on the home page.

 

[ed4copies]

Brian,

Yes, they are, for the most part, the same or similar.

The base kit is the "slimline"-a 7mm (drill size) pen with simple clip and cross refill (ballpoint). The same components are used with many other kits, changing only the centerband-and, of course, the profile of the pen.

Beyond that, the Cigar (Big Ben) is also popular and is handled by all the major suppliers.

On the home page of this site, there is a directory-far more information than you will ever absorb. Download it and be confused with a direction!![][]

Good luck and welcome to IAP and penturners' heaven!

 

[JimGo]

You'll find that most of us purchase from three main suppliers, Arizona Silhouette (http://www.arizonasilhouette.com), Craft Supplies USA (http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com), and Penn State Industries (http://www.pennstateind.com). AZ Sil is a reseller of Berea kits, and has some of the best prices for those kits, although you will find other resellers too (for example, Woodcraft sells some Berea kits). In addition, although you can order directly from Penn State Industries, there are some resellers who actually sell PSI's products at below PSI's prices - those include Pens of Color and Woodturningz. Some members here also run bulk buys/group purchases periodically, which can make trying new kits even more affordable.

One of the reasons I tend to purchase from the companies listed above is that you'll actually see posts from their employees here; they are fellow pen turners, and read and contribute here. For example, Bill Baumbeck, the owner of Arizona Silhouette, participates here off and on. Similarly, Fritz (sorry Fritz, I'm not going to try to spell your last name from memory!) from Woodturningz is a regular contributor. Sheila from Pens of Color is also a big supporter of our site, although we don't hear from her too often (at least not directly). Then, there's good ol' Nils, who is a VERY regular contributor here; he's a CSUSA employee.

Hope this helps!

 

[Mudder]

Lets not forget the links :

Woodturningz www.woodturningz.com
Pens of Color www.pocwoodworking.com

 

[Daniel]

The main three suppliers are. Craft Supplies USA,(CSUSA), Penn State Industries (P.S.I.) and Berea.
although these three have kits that look very much alike. there often are differences. Quality being one difference you will find helps set you on a particular supplier.
of these three main suppliers there are "Co-suppliers" as mentioned above. these are Pens of Color (POC) and Woodturnings (Ryan or Fritz).Arizona Sillhouette (B.B. for Bill Baumbeck)
the advantage of buying from the Co-Suppliers is better prices (Don't ask how that works it just does)You can sometimes get kits from various main suppliers in just one stop. little extras get thrown in. and they are more active in the group and more responsive to our opinions.
Berea can be gotten from Bill Baumbeck, P.S.I. can be found with either Woodturningz or POC. CSUSA has recently decided to end outside contracts for there kits so you have to get theirs directly from them. with the exception at this moment that B.B. still has some remaining stock of there kits he is selling at a discount.
you can find links to all of these suppliers web sites on the home page of this group.
hope that helps clear up some of the smoke.

 

[nilsatcraft]

Brian,
Welcome to the group! I work at Craft Supplies USA and am also a penturner. If you have any questions about our products, just let me know and I'll be happy to help. Our website is at http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com and you can also call with any questions at 1-800-551-8876. Good luck with pen turning and have fun on the site. There are so many skilled woodturners here that good enough to share their expertise with us and one another.[]

 

[vick]

Personal Supplier opinion
Craft Supplies USA - Has the best quality kits, and parts
Berea - Best plating options
PSI - Will no longer use any products by them.

Try to find a couple of kits you like in different sizes and work from there
example
small - slimline, 7mm euro , click pens, ect.
medium - Americana ballpoint, or rollerball (also called series 2000), euro, jr Gentlemans, Baron
large - Cigar, elgrande, ligero, gentlemans ect.

If you decide on one supplier you can save yourself having to pay multiple shipping charges, but I think most of us mix and match. I used to get all my stuff from Arizona Sillhouette when he carried CSU stuff. Now I order mostly from him and direct from CSU. http://www.beartoothwoods.com/WoodPenKits.htm#elgrandestocked also has good prices on Berea kits though not as much selection as Bill.

I have switched more over to Berea kits since CSU stopped using resellers (you listening Nils)

 

[bpjen]

Wow, thanks for being so helpful!

I think I am going to have to hang around this site a lot - so much to learn!

Brian

 

[wdcav1952]

Brian,

You have received lots of good advice. I would just like to add Ernie McFarlane of beartoothwoods.com Ernie is the distributor of the copper kits you perhaps have seen some pens done in (Most notably Ed "Yoyospin") Ernie is also a Berea reseller.

 

[Rifleman1776]

It is confusing. When I started, I held to the KISS principal. Then, and now, I only use kits that work on a 7 mm mandrel. And, so far, my selection of styles is limited to Slimline, European and Baron. But, know this, the devil [}] is at work out there. There are kits with the names of those above that require different size mandrels, bushings, etc. There are kits out there with different names that are the same as those I mentioned. It is all part of a conspiracy to make you crazy. [:0] But, once you have achieved that state, you will be a full-fledged member here. [][][]

 

[bpjen]

Very funny Frank, thanks for helping me get a chuckle...

 

[Daniel]

Frank,
I can't recall just who it has been in the past. but i have seen several comversations about the "Tool Issue" such as various drill bits needed, the various mandrel sizes etc.
I actually made a list of drill bit sizes that the kits use from my pen list. Provided I actually found all of them there are 34 different drill bits. not entirely certain of the mandrels. it is either three or four that i know of.
I also have a question. anyone know of a kit that requires a 19/32 drill bit. I have one in my set but for the life of me can't remember what it is for. I have a barrel trimming pilot to match it as well.
as a side note. a full set of pilots to match all the bit sizes above would be 21 different pilots. I am in the process af making a set for myself. I only have 11 to go. the 10 that I have now are the ones I actually have tubes to verify they fit tight enough. I have to wait to get other tube sizes before making the other 11. I have a list of the drill bit sizes, there diameter in inches as well as tube measurments, I.D. and O.D. as well as the measurment of my pilot for that tube size if anyone is interested.
an example would be
7mm drill bit, 0.2756 in. dia., Tube, 0.2675 O.D., 0.249 I.D.
Pilot Dia. 0.243.
this same pilot should be close enough in size to work for the J Drill bit (Pilot Dia. 0.242) as well as the 9/32 in bit (Pilot Dia. 0.241).
The 7mm pilot actually fitting in the J or 9/32 tube is just a guess on my part at this time as I don't have either tube to verify this at this time. I have verified other combinations like this though so it is an educated guess.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Daniel, your compilation confirms my assesment that this (a)vocation is confusing. I believe what has happened is that the various suppliers established proprietary styles and sizes based on a theory that doing so would keep customers loyal to them alone. What has emerged is about as systematic as the aftermath of an explosin in a confetti factory. I believe that the result dissuades many from even attempting pen (and other small project) turning because the catalogs and selections are so confusing. Plus the cost of just trying a new project can be a discouragement. Standarizing names and sizes would be a start. Oh, well. That's my sermon. I know it's getting old to some. I'm not a consultant to the industry. They will do what they want to do. But, in America, one day someone will come along, apply the KISS principal to manufacturing and marketing and get the lions share of the business. Good-bye to those stuck in the past.

 

[Daniel]

Keep in mind the recent change to the Statesman Jr. and Gent Jr pen though. a 1/32 inch change in the tube sizes did make a difference in the quality of the product. So I am not so sure it is a question of simplicity. at least not always.

 

[Daniel]

By the way, Brian. I just sent an updated version of the pen list to Jeff. It now includes Arizona Silouhette. It also will hopefully help clear up the "Where do you get that pen" question.
A.Z. carries Berea kits. but also has several of there own. still made by Berea but only sold by A.Z. The Atlas[?], Olympia, and the Baron
whew, now even I am getting dizzy

 

[bpjen]

Thanks for the help and the list Daniel. The water is getting a little less murky...