Common Mistakes (Other) Turners Make

[Tn-Steve]

Hey Gang,

I know that the highly skilled, attractive and articulate turners here NEVER make mistakes now, but what are some of the common mistakes that you see in pens, or that bedeviled you when you were first learning how. (I am assuming that not ALL of you were born with a skew in your hand and were nursed on CA)

I know that I have a devil of a time with Euros, I always want to overturn the top section, so that it doesn't have a nice flow into the finial. (My first couple actually had a little cove before it flaired out into the finial, Not an attractive shape).

What's the thing you look at when you look at a pen, the little things that you use to judge quality, craftsmanship, care?

Inquiring minds want to know,

Steve

 

[leehljp]

I look for fit and finish first on a pen. Without that, even the best of woods or castings look distracting. From there - Smooth finish reflections in bright light. Are there any dimples, even minute', or scratches, or spots even under a magnifying glass? If so, fix them.

In the beginning for me: It was everything.
First is was sizing at the Nib, CB, and Clip end;
then it was trying to accomplish for a "spotless" finish;
next it was "smooth" shiny finish.

 

[thewishman]

Fit is first, finish is next. Even a beautiful pen is marred by a bad fit. (Bushings are disposable and should be replaced when they cause a poor fit with the pen components.) Finish doesn't have to be shiny, but it should be consistent. Sanding scratches are right out, as are wood pores filled with lighter-colored dust.

 

[workinforwood]

Perhaps some extra space in the drawer between your kits so they don't fonicate into a Pregnant pen. I can't recall seeing a bulbous pen that I liked. Some shape is great, but lets not get to carried away.

 

[bitshird]

Perhaps some extra space in the drawer between your kits so they don't fonicate into a Pregnant pen. I can't recall seeing a bulbous pen that I liked. Some shape is great, but lets not get to carried away.

Jeff, Thanks, I needed a good laugh,

OK you asked about problems with Euros, to me they should transition smoothly from the lower barrel to the center band, I think they look bad if they are just turned Bushing to bushing, on the lower, there should be a slight bulge say like .030 to .040 at the midline of the barrel, over a straight line between bushings. Just enough to let show some curve, same with the cap section. Worst mistakes other than bad fits on the hardware, would be sanding rings, ALWAYS sand along the pen, stop the lathe after sanding with it running and sand along the barrels. Clean off the pen between grits, I use Acetone, or DNA which ever is closer, Don't think you can do a CA finish with out cleaning it with Acetone first, some woods are going to blush on you no mater what you do, some times it may take a few months to show up, Brazilian Ebony has been the worst for me. Also above all try and enjoy what your doing, don't stress out over a finish, because when you do, that's when you will screw up, Mr William Young put up an excellent video on applying a BLO/CA finish, it's easy, and it's quick and it looks great on most woods.

 

[CSue]

How it FITS together -
1st, is the fit is aligned with the parts in diameter?
2nd, are there gaps anywhere between part and wood/other material (indicating the blank wasn't squared correctly?)
3rd, are the flows of lines complimentary to the make and style of pen?
4th, is the finish complimentary to the style and material of the pen? Some times a pen just needs a satin or matte finish.

 

[VisExp]

Like others have mentioned, the three f's. Fit, form and finish. Regardless of what the pen is made from, fit, form and finish, are the basis for a quality pen.

I'd actually add a fourth f. Foto. I know for the most part we are aspiring pen makers and not aspiring photographers, but a good photo of your pen is the only way you are going to be able to show of the pen either in SOYP or on a retail website.

 

[Dario]

Perhaps some extra space in the drawer between your kits so they don't fonicate into a Pregnant pen. I can't recall seeing a bulbous pen that I liked. Some shape is great, but lets not get to carried away.

I agree but also know that what I like may not appeal to others so I try to keep my thoughts to myself as much as possible and respect other peoples choice.

Beaded and rope pens doesn't appeal to me as well...some actually looks painful to use. It sure help display the wood grain though and some get technical difficulty points as well as originality and WOW factor...but I won't use it.

Personally, I try to observe and follow the classic forms...the designs survived the ages for a reason. I also have much respect for the old artists and thrust their taste and design better than mine. :biggrin:

Hank Lee mentioned it before...even a slight change in curve can change a pen's appeal significantly. Placement of it can also do the same.

I agree with the 3 F's. Fit being the most important.

Imagine my shock when I saw at SOYP a Euro whose cap was turned down to the size of the tenon...the blank was jammed in the CB!!! The entire CB thickness is protruding out the blank!

Not sure if everyone was just sensitive enough not to point it out. I didn't since the turner has been here longer than I am and should know better.

Regarding bushings...I still use the same bushing as when I started with a particular style (some have several hundred pens through them already). I only replaced one set once because I lost a piece. I only use the bushing as a general guide. Once I am close, I rely on my caliper. I actually prefer using an undersized bushing since I build up my CA finish. :wink:

Form problem goes true with other turned projects (say bowls, platter and vases). Maybe because wood is expensive that some turners try to maximize the wood and forget the form altogether. I don't care how big the product is...if it is not appealing it doesn't cut it. Again, my taste is my own and what I find beautiful may be ugly to others.

My advise to newbies....try making straight B2B first before trying other shapes. Most I've seen who got stuck on bulbous design actually cannot make straight turnings. Again...stop maximizing the blank at the expense of the form.

 

[Pocono Bill]

The fingernail test. I slide my fingernail along the turning between wood and bushing while making the pen and again when examining mine (or someone else's). The transition from wood to metal part or part to wood should not catch my nail along the way.

Bill

 

[Tn-Steve]

The fingernail test. I slide my fingernail along the turning between wood and bushing while making the pen and again when examining mine (or someone else's). The transition from wood to metal part or part to wood should not catch my nail along the way.

Bill

That raises a good point for me. When I get done turning and sanding there isn't even a 'tic' as I run my nail over the edge between the blank and bushing, but when I get done finishing I always seem to have a bit of a catch, I think it's due to the CA finish. I've cleaned my bushings off, so it's not a matter of them being oversized. I've started to cheat, after I square up the ends of the finished blanks, I hold them at about a 45* angle to some 600 grit sand paper and turn them, just to break that corner off. I know it's cheating, and I promise that I'm going to stop. (or I might go blind) :angel:

I guess I'll actually have to get the digital calipers out and do some measurements, maybe even break down and turn them center to center.

Steve

 

[Tn-Steve]

Perhaps some extra space in the drawer between your kits so they don't fonicate into a Pregnant pen. I can't recall seeing a bulbous pen that I liked. Some shape is great, but lets not get to carried away.

ROFL. :rotfl: A co-worker showed me a pen that one of their cousins made for them. Nice piece of Olivewood, Slimline kit, and it was all I could do to be nice. I swear that the center of each section swelled out to a full 3/4 inch. The thing is that it was beautifully turned (but the finish was ShellaWax), but I looked at it in disbelief.

I have to agree with the Dario, there are certain shapes and flows that work perfectly, and when you hit one of them, you look at the pen and go "WOW... That ROCKS", while another pen can have just a very small difference in the curve, the swell of a line, a subtle nuance that makes you go "That's NICE, but that one over there ROCKS".

Just my .02

Steve

 

[TellicoTurning]

I did okay on my early attempts at matching the barrel and caps to the parts... where I had trouble in the beginning was pressing the transmission... I have 1/2 dozen pens that all have the transmissions too far in. I know how to fix them, but haven't taken the time yet.

 

[Fred]

Fit of the wood to all metal parts, finish of the wood, style, fit of the pen in my hand, and overall weight.

 

[randyrls]

Perhaps some extra space in the drawer between your kits so they don't fonicate into a Pregnant pen. I can't recall seeing a bulbous pen that I liked. Some shape is great, but lets not get to carried away.

Jeff;

I think you are onto something BIG!!!:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:​

Self reproducing pens! Why try to make pens when you can just let them create new pens.

OK; seriously now, a gentle curve is more pleasing to the eye than a straight line. The Parthenon in Greece isn't made with straight lines. The edges are subtly curved. I'm not a fan of bulbous pens especially slim lines. The slimline can be modified into many shapes and even made longer or thicker.

The pen shape should flow from nib to clip

 

[Rifleman1776]

Others have pretty well covered most of your questions.
However, you specifically asked about the Euro. I assume you are talking about the popular 7mm models from CS and others.
I make a lot of the Euros and long ago came to the conclusion that the best upper is straight B-to-B. Of course fit is foremost in looks.
For whatever reason, the clip on the Euro is not adjustable at all. On some other pens you can do some bending and flexing. Not so with the Euro. If you put a bulge on the upper there is not enough space left between the wood and clip to use over fabric. The clip simply won't work.
I do agree that there is a problem with proportions on the Euro when done this way. It could have a more elegant appeal if some curvature was added. But, as I said, it is not the best way to make this pen.

 

[jkeithrussell]

With the Euro, the biggest issue is getting the shoulder of the tenon square to the CB (often there is a noticeable gap). Related, if the tenon is not cut long enough, too much of the CB protrudes down onto the other blank and makes for a poor fit.

I agree that this style of pen looks best when it is very close to bushing to bushing.

 

[hughbie]

besides what everyone else has said, and i agree with, but i have trouble remembering to paint the tubes........can't tell ya how many times i've had to start over, turn down to the tubes and go at it again....just because i can see the tube in the blank....duh!

 

[wb7whi]

For me I dont mind being a touch/2 proud should things end up that way but sanding rings on really hard woods just drive me nuts! Sanding sealer before going to the high grits seems to help.

 

[DaveM]

I agree on the B2B being the best shape for the Euro... Almost. I try to put a VERY slight curve on it, so that I can match the centerband. Otherwise, even if my fit is perfect, there is this little break where you go from a level centerband to a tapered upper barrel. At the top end, the same thing happens with the finial. I try to ease into the curve at the CB, and then just start to steepen the curve at the top. The pen never curves out wider than the CB, so it isn't a bulge or anything like that. I actually stuck an acrylic blank for a Euro on my metal lathe and turned a perfect bushing to bushing taper. It wasn't quite right, as it didn't meet up with the hardware in smooth level lines. (The fit was dead on to .001 though!)

With all of that said, the Euro is my least favorite pen to turn. I don't worry about the tenon as much as the shape. It is the one pen that gets ugly if you miss the shape the slightest bit. I find all of the other pens to be more forgiving of little imperfections.

Dave

 

[TurnedAround]

What I REALLY hate is putting the finial on without the clip!:curse: Why do I do that? Is there no God?

Ed