Clips - Anatomy and Physiology!

[Scott]

This is an old question, with darn few new answers!

If a person were to make their own clip for a pen, what would be the best way to do this?

Clips are probably the most difficult part of a pen for us penmakers to make on our own, from scratch. They require a certain amount of flex, without being too flexible. Size and appearance are big issues, but the flex is the biggest obstacle.

I would like a clip made to look a certain way - you know, a particular design. This is a theme pen, and there are no clips out there that I can adapt over. This is one I'm going to have to make myself. Where to start?

What material is best? Casting the piece in silver has appeal, but I don't think that would hold up to any kind of flexing. So would steel be the best? Brass! And given that, would machining be the best option for acheiving the design I want in steel or brass? I have the feeling that most clips included with our kits are stamped. I don't think that will work with what I'm thinking.

I noticed on the emperor kits that the clip is a more solid straight piece, with a big decorative piece attached to it, and it appears the flex is all in the bend, at the top of the clip. I'm thinking that this is where the flex is in a lot of clips.

What are your ideas on clips, and how to make them?

Scott.

 

[driften]

What style of pen are you making? Maybe the clip from a Baron would be a starting place. Its a spring slip that is rivited on to the main part maybe you can replace the top part with the design you want.... There was an article a while back on making wood clips but that does not seem to be what you are needing.

 

[vick]

Scott good luck!
I might suggest looking into clip suppliers to see if they have some thing that would work for you. I contacted one or 2 with no success in the past. I would suggest you pretend to want samples for a bigger order if you want them to talk to you. Most of the home made clip that I have seen are more ornamental than functional. I talked to a guy that ran a jewlery making supply business and he said to get the spring right you would basically have to manufacture to shape then harden and temper it once it was shaped.

 

[arioux]

Hi,

Here is an article i found a while ago that shows how to make a wood clip

Maybe this can give you some idea.

http://www.davidreedsmith.com/Articles/LaminatedPenClip/LaminatedPenClip.htm
ALfred

 

[btboone]

Scott, the easiest way to get something workable is to use aluminum and file it to shape. This obviously doesn't lend itself to mass production, but can work for onesies. Another avenue to go is stainless steel, which will have the spring you need, but is harder to work. It can be cut with a hacksaw and filed and sanded to shape.

I just ran across the same issue on the pen I'm working on. I decided to revisit my titanium wire clip and elongate it and make it more narrow than I've done before. It was too wide and stiff before, but it has just the right amount of spring to it now.

Other ideas for higher production include making masters in wax and having them cast in silver. It can probably be done relatively cheaply. You can get very fine detail if you carve the wax. There are special waxes made for that purpose. There is also some stuff called precious metal clay. It is pure silver that can be molded like clay. It's bound together with something that gets burned away in a kiln and leaves 99.9% pure silver.

 

[rtparso]

Randy posted the following URLs last night. They show some home made clips. Might give you some ideas.

http://tinyurl.com/8czv4

http://tinyurl.com/dtmbl

 

[vick]

Originally posted by rtparso
<br />Randy posted the following URLs last night. They show some home made clips. Might give you some ideas.

http://tinyurl.com/8czv4

http://tinyurl.com/dtmbl

Brian had posted a while ago about his clip method but I can not seem to find the post. If I remember correctly he basically was hand filing them out of silver then attaching them with small hex bolt that he then ground down. If I recall he said they where more form than function.
If you are interested you may want to search the PMG archives for a reference, I just searched IAP cause I remember the post.

 

[Scott]

Thanks for the input everybody!

The type of clip I'm hoping to come up with will be highly decorative, but I still need it to be functional.

Hi Bruce! I like the idea of casting this in silver, both because of the detail I would be able to acheive and the material. Silver fits the overall theme I'm shooting for. But I worry that the silver would not be resilliant enough - that it would bend but not spring back. Of course I guess that depends on the alloy used.

Scott.

 

[btboone]

Yup. A silver/ titanium alloy might be just right. [][]

 

[btboone]

Scott, there are a lot of silver alloy clips on high end pens. I think that the trick might be to design it where it stands off the pen maybe around 1/8" and doesn't need to flex much. I don't really know the different alloys of silver and how the stiffness changes. Pewter is another easily castable alloy. There might be others like tin or alloys like that which are more springy.

 

[ctEaglesc]

Silver solder steel and get it plated?
Just a SWAG.
Spring steel like a bandsaw blade are soldered right on the machine and they seem to have plenty of flex.
A jewlwer friend of mine who plates my casings oncew suggested that if I wanted components plated to make them out of steel.
I have absolutely no knowledge of metal compostions though my Dad was a metalurgist.
Seems to me this might me an easy route.

 

[Mudder]

Take a look at 302 stainless steel (spring tempered).
We use it to make belleville and spring washers. It works fairly easily but it does work harden. Takes an anodize well but I have no experience with other platings on it. A simple bending jig can be fashioned with a couple blocks of hardwood and a vise to bend it.

 

[Rifleman1776]

In another thread I mentioned the cannon bone from deer. This particular bone is very-very tough. It is used for needles, knives and even chipping flint. A clip could be whittled from this bone and, I predict, last as long as the pen. It would be unique and appropriate for antler pens.

 

[jwoodwright]

Originally posted by cteaglesc
<br />Silver solder steel and get it plated?
Just a SWAG.
Spring steel like a bandsaw blade are soldered right on the machine and they seem to have plenty of flex.
A jewlwer friend of mine who plates my casings oncew suggested that if I wanted components plated to make them out of steel.
I have absolutely no knowledge of metal compostions though my Dad was a metalurgist.
Seems to me this might me an easy route.

Band Saw blades are welded... Then annealed. Welding leaves a hard spot that could snap. The Industrial Band Saws with their own blade welder are slick. After you bevel the edges (built-in grinder) you clamp ends and weld. then you run a current through and finally dress the weld with the grinder. I had a Delta 16" 3-wheeler, 82" blade. Was cheaper to buy a coil and have a dozen welded up for a 6-pack...

 

[btboone]

For a simpler clip, raw stainless or titanium would work fine. It can have a nice brushed or polished finish. Any flexible material might risk flaking of the plating if it got flexed too much.

 

[Scott]

There are some great ideas here! I'm still leaning towards a casting for the particular clip I have in mind, but I have some other designs in mind that would be well suited by other methods. I think I'm going to have to talk to someone familiar with working silver and it's various alloys. I always enjoyed learning new things! [8D]

What I'm picturing is a clip that resembles something else, hence the specific design requirement. I think my options are either casting or machining. I talked to my Son over the weekend - he is a machinist - and he says machining small parts like a clip is a bugger. But he did suggest that the company he works for has a sheet metal bending and die shop, and a lot of work goes back and forth between that shop and the machining shop. I guess he was suggesting that the clip could be bent and formed, hardened properly, machined and then plated. This is getting involved! I would begin to feel daunted by all this, except that there would never be any advances if not for fools willing to try things others thought were impossible!

I'll let you know as things progress.

Scott.

 

[RussFairfield]

I have been playing off and on with Silver clips for the past several years. I abandoned the casting route as being too expensive to have someone else do it; and I couldn't do it myself because it required an investment that I didn't want to make and skills I didn't want to learn. The solution for me was silver wire. The wire is available in a wide variety of sizes in round, square, rectangular, and half-rounds; and in a variety of alloys and temper. Some of it is very stiff. I had to learn the welding and soldering techniques, but that was an easy task compared to casting. A few strokes with a good file can round the corners into nearly any clip I need.

 

[btboone]

I think I'm going to invest in a kiln one of these days. Silver working should have some good possibilities in both pens and jewelry.

The precious metal clay is a good way to start with a low investment. It can be fired by a flame or by something like an old toaster oven. Here's a link to some stuff make that way: http://www.pmcguild.com/gallery/gallery1.html

 

[Scott]

Hi Russ! The idea of using the silver wire, and then shaping it by hand does have some appeal. I would like to see some pictures if you'd be willing to share!

Bruce - I had meant to comment on the Precious Metal Clay (PMC) before. I have been reading about it in one of my jewelry magazines. But I didn't realize the small details they were getting with it. That gallery shows some pretty cool stuff! I will have to pursue this angle. Thanks!

Scott.

 

[PenWorks]

Scott, I played with some silver wire about a year ago, never spent
alot of time on it, but it does have potential. I abandoned the idea for PMC, but never found the time for that either.

This is a photo of my working prototype, I CA'd the clip in, it eventually worked loose, not to a point coming unatached but a little loose, this was also a proto of my friction fit cap, that eventually, the resin cracked right at the front section of the pen. For all the pen's faults, I use it and is still a good looking writer, has a white gold Lamy nib.

<br />

 

[JimGo]

The down side to PMC is its cost; the stuff ain't cheap! I have some to play with - one of these days I hope to find the time!!!

 

[Rifleman1776]

Originally posted by RussFairfield
<br />I have been playing off and on with Silver clips for the past several years. I abandoned the casting route as being too expensive to have someone else do it; and I couldn't do it myself because it required an investment that I didn't want to make and skills I didn't want to learn. The solution for me was silver wire. The wire is available in a wide variety of sizes in round, square, rectangular, and half-rounds; and in a variety of alloys and temper. Some of it is very stiff. I had to learn the welding and soldering techniques, but that was an easy task compared to casting. A few strokes with a good file can round the corners into nearly any clip I need.

I once had the notion of doing silver casting after seeing some work by a friend. Gave up the idea quickly after learning what equipment is needed and work involved. Silver does not readily fill a mold and must be centrifuged to get a good cast. That is the reason most custom jewlers will not work in silver. Customers won't pay the price for a relatively inexpensive semi-precious metal when the labor jacks the price. They prefer to do the same work in gold which customers understand is expensive. I believe Eagle is on track with making the clip from spring steel then having it plated.

 

[btboone]

Jim, please be sure to post your experiences with it when you get to play with some. I'm thinking I might try to get radical with my designs. I love the Tiffany's pen in the shape of a panther. That's the kind of stuff that the PMC could do.

 

[JimGo]

I need a few more weeks to get my house in order, then I should be able to get back to pen making, including some less traditional stuff I have in mind. Can't wait!!!

 

[Fred in NC]

Hopefully by mid 2006 I will be set up to make some custom parts. I am seriously looking at the lost wax casting method, and a plating setup. Maybe between Bruce and myself we can fill a need and come up with parts for those out-of-the-box pens.

Custom clips have been a big problem, so I will see if I can come up with a solution.