clip/cross disaster

Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
Status
Not open for further replies.

Rifleman1776

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2004
Messages
7,330
Location
Mountain Home, Arkansas, USA.
Below is a picture of an upgrade gold clip for a Baron. It was my intention to have crosses affixed to the clips of two Barons. One was to be a fountain pen with titanium gold and the one pictured, a rollerball in upgrade gold. I purchased a pair of gold earrings and took those, with clips to a custom jewler. She informed me that the best way to attach was by riveting. Today, when I went to pick up, she said she was unable to attach either. While attempting to drill the clip she broke two tungsten drill bits (.011") and simply could not penetrate the clip. I'm not a machinist or metallurgist, but it does strike me as odd that she could not drill this. Even spring steel is drillable with the right bit and speed. Now, I have a ruined Baron clip and two gold crosses that I cannot use. The other (T gold) clip was intended to be on a pen for my pastor. I'm really dissapointed I will not be able to give him the intended pen with a cross on the clip. I don't want to downgrade the style to a Euro or Slimline just to get the cross clip. And, now, I'll have to write to Bill Baumbeck at Arizona Silhouette to see if a clip for a Baron, by itself, can be purchased. Suggestions welcome.

2005415182147_clip%20cross.jpg
 
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad

Fred in NC

Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Messages
1,887
Location
LANDIS, NC, USA.
Frank, that is the strangest news I have heard in a long time !!!

Maybe the titanium coating on the pen had to do with it. A conical diamond coated bit could be use to break thru the surface before using the drill.

Sorry to hear about your plight!
 

DCBluesman

Passed Away Mar 3, 2016
In Memoriam
Joined
Aug 22, 2004
Messages
7,679
Location
WOODBRIDGE, VIRGINIA
I hope Bruce Boone jumps in here. Seems to me that he mentioned something about the extreme difficulties in soldering titanium and its alloys. Of course, I'm also curious about the "titanium" claim since most "iridium" nibs have no iridium at all. It's very strange, however, that the upgrade gold could not be easily soldered or drilled. Maybe Bruce can answer ALL of this. :)
 

Rifleman1776

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2004
Messages
7,330
Location
Mountain Home, Arkansas, USA.
The problem clip was the upgrade gold, not the titanium. I asked the jewler why she couldn't silver/gold solder the cross on. She said that with plated items the heat would remove the plating.




Originally posted by dougle40
<br />I've done a lot of silversmithing and I don't understand why it couldn't be silver soldered on ?????
 

wayneis

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
Messages
1,948
Location
Okemos, Michigan, USA.
It looks like she tried to drill from the top and those clips are rounded so she probably slid around and couldn't get the bit to start. If she had drilled from the bottom the clip is shaped so that the bit would have bit in and drilled through.
 

btboone

Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2004
Messages
2,421
Location
Roswell, GA, USA.
A lot of coatings are amazingly hard. Most can't be soldered to, especially if it's actually titanium nitride (whick looks like gold) or some of the other coatings done with a vacuum coating process. Breaking a .011" tungsten carbide drill is not surprising, as they are very hard and brittle, especially when they are that thin. The cause of breakage is usually that it starts sliding offcenter as it skates across the surface. They need to have a centerdrilled hole and used with a drill press or something dead solid like that, and the rpms need to be as fast as you can go for a drill that tiny. The feed needs to be very light. Don't push the drill faster than it wants to eat. It's tough to tell if they are dull when they are that small, but new drills should certainly work for it. If they keep breaking, you might want to try cobalt drills, which are in between carbide and high speed steel in hardness (and brittleness.)
 

JimGo

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2005
Messages
6,498
Location
North Wales, PA
Willie, that looks really cool! Great idea. Frank, since the clip is already toast anyway, why not have her try soldering it if she still can't glue it? Worst case is that you further destroy an already wrecked clip!
 

Rifleman1776

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2004
Messages
7,330
Location
Mountain Home, Arkansas, USA.
She won't. I'm going to get a quote from a (real [?] ) jewler that has a laser cold weld machine. The cross might cover up the gash.




Originally posted by JimGo
<br />Willie, that looks really cool! Great idea. Frank, since the clip is already toast anyway, why not have her try soldering it if she still can't glue it? Worst case is that you further destroy an already wrecked clip!
 

Rifleman1776

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2004
Messages
7,330
Location
Mountain Home, Arkansas, USA.
I'm concerned about the long term durability of epoxy and how well it will stick to gold. Nope, it will be laser cold weld if the price is right. The destroyed clip will be trashed and the pen will become a Baroness purse pen with no clip. Following suggestions, last night I tried drilling the clip. I set my drill press to the highest speed (6500 rpm), using a new .012 drill and clamping the clip securely, I tried drilling from the back. Feeding very slowly and genlty, as soon as the drill touched the clip it broke. Go figger.



Originally posted by knottyharry
<br />Frank,
Just a thought, but could you use some 5 minute epoxy on it?
Just a light coat of it and stick it to it.
Harry
 

Rifleman1776

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2004
Messages
7,330
Location
Mountain Home, Arkansas, USA.
Final input on this matter. Maybe. I took the clip in question plus another in titanium gold, with crosses, to a local jewler who has a cold weld laser machine. He is an old friend and honest but his prices are much higher than I can usually afford. However, he said that the laser weld would not work on the upgrade (palladium alloy) gold and after looking at a chart, was very skeptical that it would work on the titanium alloy. When I showed him the drilling attempts he was not surprised that the drill bits broke instead of drilling. This man is an expert with many years experience and he didn't have an answer. So, what I'm going to do now is go to a laser engraver and have a cross burned on the barrel and place the clip on the opposite side. So, whoever actually makes these Baron kits, we would like some theme clips. Y'all listening out there?
 

woodscavenger

Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
Messages
1,491
Location
Boise, ID, USA.
I think lased engraving is a great idea, or the cross inlay that is on the other threads. I doubt they would do theme clips on the barons but who knows.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom