Chisel, gouge scrapers or other?

[cloud]

Hello,

I am currently putting together all the piece I need to start turning pens. I have a basic question, which tool do you use on the lathe?

I did multiple searches and either the keyword are not specific enough or the information is very diffuse. If there is such a thread, I would be happy to be referred to it.

In my case, I intend to round blank between centers to 3/4 and then use a collet chuck to continue turning. (mostly intend to use acrylic to begin). Although I am very interested in any general information.

What do you use to round square blanks?
What I've found on this is some use gouge, what size do you prefer? Some use some carbide insert tool, what is the advantage over a gouge? Some may use scrapers, since a couple of carbide tool use this principle. Do you use a round or square scraper?

Whant to you use to make some rounded shape on the pen barrel?
I guess a square scraper may not be the best tool, is a round scraper better for this purpose?

Is a parting tool necessary or can any other tool replace this?

What do you use for finishing before sanding/polishing?
Some seem to use skew chisel (some use these from the start to the finish)

As a newbie, I am perplexed with the divergeance of opinion., trying to make some sese of it all. Of course all will be clearer when I get my lathe, but I will need some tools to start.

Is a kit of a roughing gouge, a rounded skew chisel and a scraper (round or square?) a good kit to start with?

Cheers

Claude

 

[Jon-wx5nco]

Claude,
You opened up a can of worms here. Each of us have our own favorite tool for the job. Personally, I like to use the Skewchigouge to do 99% of my work. I then use a scraper or a Skew (as a scraper) to finish off the blank.

Here is the link for the Skewchigouge:
http://www.woodcraft.com/Catalog/ProductPage.aspx?prodid=3536

 

[snyiper]

I am of the same school . Depending on the material a gouge or Carbide tool like a woodchuck. The carbide tool works well on all material and no sharpening! I dont use the skew properly according to most, I use it as a scraper to finish size all my blanks. Get a few basic tools learn how to sharpen them and how each works and come up with your own style!!!

 

[RAdams]

I start with a 3/8 spindle gouge to get the blank true and round, then I use a parting tool on the ends to get them close, and then a scraper to finish the rest. I like to finish off with the 600 grit gouge with soapy water. Then i switch to micro mesh with soapy water.

 

[snyiper]

600 grit gouge in soapy water? I got to be missing something here.

 

[cloud]

I know, I like worms, hey my lawn is full of them white ones! That's why I always do myself a pleasure of opening them can's.

The Skewchigouge seems pretty tricky to hone?

 

[cloud]

Ron, do you use a rounded or square scraper?

 

[jskeen]

I will agree that we all disagree most of the time as to what is the "BEST" tool to do a job. Bottom line is the best tool is the one that works best for YOU. Now, Skeen's corollary to the best tool rule is "the tool that will usually work best for you is the one you can keep the sharpest!" The finest tool in the world will cause you no end of problems, blown up blanks, catches and heartache, if you can't keep it sharp. So, what are you planning to sharpen your tools with?

If you don't have anything, your best bet may be a carbide cutter type tool, so you can just change the cutting edge when it gets dull eventually (yes, even carbide will dull eventually)

If you have a 6 inch bench grinder, you can relatively easily set it up to sharpen gouges and get a good fine grit wheel. This will put you in a position to use a 3/4 spindle gouge for most of your turning, and touch up the edge very easily. (that's my method most of the time) I use it for rounding, roughing, smoothing, cutting coves (if they are not too small) and most everything else.

If you have a belt sander or a disk sander, you can very easily rig a jig to sharpen skew's and scrapers, so that will be your go to tool 90 percent of the time. I'm starting to use a skew more and more, now that I am set up to sharpen them easily. A skew is the most versatile tool out there, but the learning curve is a little bit steeper at first.

My opinion on skews for beginners is this (and it may be controversial, but so be it) Get a cheap, plain old rectangular skew to start with. Lots of people recommend the fancy (read expensive) oval skews or the ones with rounded corners, but they are usually experienced turners, who have expensive, precision sharpening setups. A plain old square cornered skew is much easier to sharpen with homemade jigs, and a well sharpened square corner skew is much easier to use than a dull oval or rounded corner one. Don't spend a fortune on the first one cause you are going to grind it away learning to sharpen, so why waste an expensive one. YMMV of course.

And a final word on tools, there are a ton of exotic, powder metal technology, exclusive Scandinavian alloy, big name turning tools out there, and they all cost an arm and a leg. You can get very high quality modern HSS (high speed steel) tools at lots of places for a few bucks each, and they might not stay as sharp as long, but when freshly sharpened YOU CAN"T TELL THE DIFFERENCE! So bargin hunt a little. Search on FEEBAY, or craigs list or the local flea market, or whatever, but save the money to buy yourself some pen kits and nice blanks, you will be much happier, and have some nice pens to show for your time instead of a few very expensive tools nobody else sees

But, I would recommend that you make sure your tools are marked HSS or High Speed Steel, and not simply tool steel or carbon steel. HSS will not lose it's hardness at the cutting edge if you get it a little too hot sharpening it. If you heat a tool steel edge till it turns blue, it's ruined because it is now too soft to hold an edge.

Ok, sorry for the novella, let the disagreements begin!

James

 

[RAdams]

Round. The square one scares me. I just know the corner will dig in and cause me all kindsa problems...

600 grit gouge in soapy water:

600 grit wet or dry sandpaper. I keep it in water with a squeeze of dish soap. The soap makes the paper cut like crazy! the 600 grit soapy and wet cuts about like 240 dry. The dish soap trick also works with your micro mesh! A little trick i learned right here on IAP!

 

[PenMan1]

The only thing that I'll add to this tool debate (which will likely get many responses) is to add that you will need a parting tool. I think that the thin bladed, short parting tools do a much better job than the tool sold in a pen turning set. I would recommend buying the thin blade from the beginning, especially since you mentioned that you would start by turning between centers.

 

[cloud]

For sharpening, I have a worksharp 2000, horizontal slow speed grinder I use for my woodworking chisels and plane blade, then a combi waterstone to finish up.

I've learned to sharpen flat blades, I will need practice for rounded bladed.

Thanks for the input

 

[RussFairfield]

The objective is to turn a square stick into a round one and leave a smooth surface that requires less sanding.

It doesn't matter what tool you use to do that. Sharp is more important the shape. Some tools will take longer than others, but any of them will do the job if they are sharp andyou let them cut at their own speed and don't force them into the wood.

Personally, I use a spindle gouge for roughing, and a skew for the finish cuts on most woods, and use a scraper on very dense species. They all work.

 

[Jim Smith]

When I thought about this question, my answer ended up being "It depends". When I'm working with wood or most acrylics, I use a spindle gouge. If I'm working with a very hard materials like some of the True Stones or micarta, I switch to a carbide tipped tool and go very slowly. Either way, it is most important to keep your tools sharp.

Jim Smith

 

[DurocShark]

Round. The square one scares me. I just know the corner will dig in and cause me all kindsa problems...

Hmm... The corners of my straight skew haven't seen action since I first learned how to use one, except when deliberately using the corner for a specific cut.

Every material has a favorite tool in my hands. Some stuff gets a skew start to finish. Some gets a big ole roughing gouge and finished with a skew. Alabaster and soapstone get a round nose scraper most of the time. It depends.

I have one recommendation: Do NOT buy the "penturners" lathe tool sets. They're too bloody small. I read somewhere (probably here), "You can use big tools on small projects, but you can't use small tools on big projects." And for me, the small tools are darn near useless even on small stuff.

A good starter set is the Benjamin's Best from Penn State: http://www.pennstateind.com/store/LCHSS8.html?mybuyscid=1557892331

$70 and gets you everything you need to get started. And the BB tools are really not bad. I have a couple now and am very happy with them.

 

[Padre]

My main tool is a roughing gouge. But I also use a parting tool, a carbide cutter, sand paper and micromesh.

 

[el_d]

I started off reaserching and geting alot of different tools, but now I only use 1 tool to complete any type of pen I make.

I highly recomend the Woodchuck.

 

[Smitty37]

Best tool

I found (I also started turning pens with no previous turning experience of any kind) that you need to learn to use a gouge....I can finally do that pretty well...you will also need to learn to use a skew (fairly difficult to learn) and you do need a parting tool. I need to get a thinner one. Spend a lot on the lathe and get a good one. And, to be perfectly honest I think drilling is about the hardest part of the job..

 

[bruce119]

Claud

First off welcome to the forum. Here you will find out everything you need to know and much, much, too much more it's fun. Everything you need is rite here.

Now I didn't read all the post so I will give a quick skinny.

To round the tubes on challenging blanks like soft wood or acrylics use the table top sander. Again to square the ends get a set of the Harbor Freight transfer punches you will need them they are the pen makers fix all. You will need them to disassemble your pens when needed also I use them to square the ends. I don't use a mill a mill can be a problem and cause tear out. An easy way with punches on a piece of 1/4 angle wood molding. See photo below works great that is how I do all my squaring.

Now tools very simple the only tools I ever used in making pens is a 1/2" sorby oval skew and a parting tool just to clean the edges after a CA finish. Now (with pens) I don't usually use the skew in the traditional way that is "rite or proper" I mostly use it as a scraper works great. As long as it gets the job done there is no rite or wrong way.

Good luck there is tons of help here. And I am always willing to help you can always PM me. Be sure to keep an eye on the classifieds. There are a LOT of GREAT artist here that share and sell there blanks for dirt cheap and you will not find any better wood anywhere than rite here.

Good luck

 

[randyrls]

I am currently putting together all the piece I need to start turning pens. I have a basic question, which tool do you use on the lathe?

Welcome Claude. There are a great bunch of people here and will help you get started. The best way to learn is hands-on learning. I'm not sure where you are located, but contact a local woodturning group. Woodcraft in the US can put you in touch with someone. Penn State Industries has a free DVD they can send you with an order.

What do you use to round square blanks?

For all acrylics, I knock the corners off the square blanks with a drum sander, then use a skew from start to finish

For wood, I use a 1/2" spindle gouge to rough and then the skew to finish.

As a newbie, I am perplexed with the divergeance of opinion., trying to make some sese of it all. Of course all will be clearer when I get my lathe, but I will need some tools to start.

Is a kit of a roughing gouge, a rounded skew chisel and a scraper (round or square?) a good kit to start with?

Yes; Use the tools you have. The best tool for you is the sharp tool you use most and are familiar with!

If you are going to do acrylics, a carbide tipped tool is useful for some of the harder acrylics. Several folks here sell these. Search in the "Buy, Sell, Swap" forums.

Checkout the Wiki here on Penturners for information.
http://www.penturners.org/wiki/Pen_Making_Overview

 

[cloud]

Thanks for all information to date.

Thank you also for welcoming me. As an avid pen collector, I intend to do mostly collection piece to use them myself and sell a minim to cover my costs. I will go kitless from the start, and with your advice have determined the best way to go about with this.

I don't have much time, new baby, work etc. I will not seek to join a woodturning group in my area.

Advice here, you tube and some message I've sent have put me in a good way on the track.

I will probably order a Benjamin best set to start and add a carbide tool within the year.

Cheers

 

[ed4copies]

Claude,

Welcome and good luck.

Starting kitless and with acrylics and other resins, you will find a lot of the "wisdom" imparted does you absolutely NO good. Wood turning is very different from turning higher end plastics.

The tools you describe will do the job, in the hands of an experienced turner. You will waste much plastic learning--so did I. But, there is no substitute for practice.

Again, good luck. An "in-person" lesson with someone who KNOWS how to turn plastic will save you LOTS of money, in the long run. But, watching YouTube MAY work equally well.

 

[razor524]

I hate to add to the confusion, but I am a relative newbie and I like the spindlemaster after using a roughing gouge. Still working on my skew skills!

 

[bradh]

I use mainly 3 tools for pens:
1 1/2" roughing gouge to get the blank round.
3/4" oval skew - I use this for everything except roughing and tenons.
standard parting tool for the tenons on Euro Pens.

There are older threads on this topic too, like:
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=37280

 

[Jim in Oakville]

roughing gouge and then a skew, re-honed just before the "Money Cut"

 

[ldb2000]

Welcome to the group Cloud . As you see there are as many different answers to your questions as there are turners here . As James said what works best for you is the best tool for the job . The basic tools you need are a spindle gouge , a skew and a parting tool . A good caliper is also important for measuring . With those tools you can make pens . Keeping them sharp is the most important thing so a sharpening system is a must have tool as well . The Worksharp will do a fine job of sharpening .
My "Go to" tools are a Hunter carbide tool for roughing the square blanks to round then bringing the round blanks to size and my PSI carbide tipped tools for all fine turning to final shape . I love those carbide tipped tools because they let me spend more time turning and less time sharpening . They work equally well on soft woods to the hardest Tru-stone as well as aluminum and brass . They do have their limitations though . Because the carbide tips are braised on you must keep the tool rest tight to the work , if you let the tips hang over the tool rest they will break off , this means they are only useful for pens and turnings where you can get the rest up next to the work . To me that limitation is worth the fact that I only have to sharpen them occasionally and then they just need a light honing . All of my pens in my album are made with those tools including the metal ones .
Some of the other things you will need , especially if you want to go kitless are a collet chuck and a full set of collets , a good 60 degree dead center and a live center and a digital caliper .
I applaud your desire to go kitless from the start but will say that there are some differences between turning a kit pen and kitless pen . Because the kitless pens do not normally use brass tubes glued into the blank they can very easily break and require a very light touch . I would advise that you learn your technique on some kit pens . It will save you some money on damaged blanks and help with the learning curve . If you have any questions please feel free to PM me and I will be glad to help.
Check out the Penmakers Challenge I am running in the Advanced penmakers forum , it will help you on your road to kitlessness . Here's the link http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=61805

 

[Bree]

Roughing gouge or carbide tool to rough the square into cylinder... both work.

Radius Skew... best shaping and final finish tool in town IMHO. Not as easy to learn as a spindle gouge but once you know how to use it, I doubt that you will use anything else.

If you want to do single tool pen making, there is a tool that can rough, make tenons and cut just like a skew with the same finish. That is the Bedan tool.

It is not easy to master but when you watch Jean Escoulen... the French master of the tool... you can see how useful it can be. Watch him make an egg in the second video using the Bedan. Making a pen is a lot easier than making an egg.

Pt 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMDPE8i4LiQ
Pt 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3Fvo4smGZk&NR=1

 

[jocat54]

Welcome Claude. I only use a skew for all my pen turning-it's what I learned with and leaves very little sanding to do. I think if you can learn to use a skew you won't use much else. Mine is a old craftsman HSS and I do have to hit it with a stone a couple of times while turning a blank (depending on what the blank is) but it only takes a minute or less. I do use a parting tool to cut any tenons.

 

[Wildman]

I use a ¾" roughing gouge to turn either acrylic or wood blanks round. Sometimes this is the only tool I use for pens. I will use my ½" skew for any clean-up if necessary. I can also use just a skew to complete turning a pen blank. I can use a skew to do things you normally use a parting tool to do. I have not needed a parting tool to make a pen yet. I have three different parting tools if ever need one.

I think a ¾" roughing gouge, 1/2" rolled edged skew, and a parting tool should help you make any pen kit out there.

Only time use a scrapper on spindle turning is making boxes and ornaments. I use a round nose scrapper for cleaning up bottoms of boxes and ornaments. I prefer to use tools that cut rather than scrap even on bowls.

 

[themartaman]

Claude, You round the square blank after drilling a hole for brass tube. Using a mandrell and bushings for the pen you are making. The tube is glued in with ca or another glue. Or you can turn between centers with no mandrell. I use a skew and a carbide tipped cutter bought on this forum. Skew is 1" and I never worry about the corners. Light cuts with any tool is the norm. Good luck and have fun.