I'm new to pen turning, have turned about 15 pens in the last two weeks. I have a Rikon mini with a CS mandrel. I've so far just been turning slimlines, and I notice that on most turnings, when I turn the outboard blank I get chatter and howling. Am I doing something wrong? The inboard half is always smooth as silk. Is my mandrel flexing or something? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
Chatter on outboard blank
- Thread starter JerryO
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Jerryconn
Member
You got it, your mandrel is flexing. You can reverse the bushing and blanks on your mandrel so you are always turning near the headstock. Or, sharpening your tool of choice really well and take light cuts, some guys put a finger or two behind the blank opposite the tool to add support. I'm sure others will offer their methods to reduce chatter.
ed4copies
Local Chapter Manager
Is your mandrel supported by a 60 degree live center? One common source of vibration is the end of the mandrel "whipping".
Dario
Member
I agree with Jerry. Finish the barrel close to the headstock then swap it with the outer one.
Check your headstock and tailstock alignment too.
After using various mandrels and messing with chatter that usually lead to out of round or non-concentric pens, I (rather my wife) got me a Beall collet chuck. Problem solved. It may look expensive but the benefit really pays off. Note that accurate turnings finish much faster, better and easier too. If you choose to sell your pens later...will fetch higher $$$$$ too [
]
FYI, If I used all the money I wasted using the cheaper mandrels...I could have bought another Beall chuck actually.
Check your headstock and tailstock alignment too.
After using various mandrels and messing with chatter that usually lead to out of round or non-concentric pens, I (rather my wife) got me a Beall collet chuck. Problem solved. It may look expensive but the benefit really pays off. Note that accurate turnings finish much faster, better and easier too. If you choose to sell your pens later...will fetch higher $$$$$ too [
]FYI, If I used all the money I wasted using the cheaper mandrels...I could have bought another Beall chuck actually.
Thanks for the replies. For support, I bring up the tailstock and use the tip of the factory supplied "live center" which I'm not sure is the true definition of a live center. It has a small, removeable center tip which seems to engage and hold the tip of the mandrel well. On another, though similar note, I seem to be getting slightly out of round or lop-sided turnings, not always though. i read on another thread, a caution about pressing too hard when sanding as it may cause the mandrel to bow out or whip, and thus result in a similar condition. Maybe I'm applying too much pressure with the tailstock adjustment? Sorry about all the newbie type questions, but hey, I'm a newbie!
ed4copies
Local Chapter Manager
Jerry,
Bring your tailstock CLOSE to the mandrel, turn the lathe on, the mandrel will seek center as it spins. Insert the tailstock and watch-is it turning in a perfect circle or "wobbling"?
If perfect circle, tighten everything up and turn - you started right, you hope to stay right.
Bring your tailstock CLOSE to the mandrel, turn the lathe on, the mandrel will seek center as it spins. Insert the tailstock and watch-is it turning in a perfect circle or "wobbling"?
If perfect circle, tighten everything up and turn - you started right, you hope to stay right.
Dario,
I'm looking at my CS catalog at the Beall collett chuck and have a couple questions. Does it take a different mandrel? Mine is the typical #2 MT and it appears that the Beall unit is simply a round ring, so is there a different adapter for the mandrel or do you simply tighten the collett down on the mandrel shaft and do away with the adapter?
Ed,
What live center do you recommend? As I mentioned in my earlier post, I'm using the Rikon factory tip but maybe it's not sufficient.
I'm looking at my CS catalog at the Beall collett chuck and have a couple questions. Does it take a different mandrel? Mine is the typical #2 MT and it appears that the Beall unit is simply a round ring, so is there a different adapter for the mandrel or do you simply tighten the collett down on the mandrel shaft and do away with the adapter?
Ed,
What live center do you recommend? As I mentioned in my earlier post, I'm using the Rikon factory tip but maybe it's not sufficient.
Jerryconn
Member
If you are using the live center that came with your lathe, you shoud really consider replacing it with a 60 degree live center. the angle on the point is not 60 deg. and will not support your mandrel properly. 60 deg. live center can be purchased for $20 including shipping and they are worth to price in terms of improving your support for your mandrel. Click here for info on a live center.
ed4copies
Local Chapter Manager
http://www.grizzly.com/products/searchresults.aspx?q=live+center&submit.x=5&submit.y=6
This is where I get mine, usually on sale.
This is where I get mine, usually on sale.
ed4copies
Local Chapter Manager
Posted without seeing JerryConn, his is good, too!!
Dario
Member
Jerry,
You have to buy one that is threaded the same size as your lathe's spindle.
Not sure if Charles still carry any but I (my wife) bought mine from him here http://www.woodchipshome.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=WC&Category_Code=LA
You have to buy one that is threaded the same size as your lathe's spindle.
Not sure if Charles still carry any but I (my wife) bought mine from him here http://www.woodchipshome.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=WC&Category_Code=LA
richstick1
Member
Agreed - I don't have alot of experience, but I can tell you that the LC that came with your Rikon is 99.99% surely not a 60 degree cone angle - probably more like 30-35 degrees. I kept hearing how my Jet Mini would come with a 60 degree center - well, they don't. Virtually all mini/midi lathes come with a LC designed for gripping wood stock. Buy a 60 degree and it will fit the cone on your mandrel. PSI sells a good LC too - can get a good deal on it on Amazon - that's where I got mine and I'm very happy with it.
BTW - someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe for the Beall chuck, you will need it in the 1"x8 TPI as that is what the headstock thread is on your Rikon.....
BTW - someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe for the Beall chuck, you will need it in the 1"x8 TPI as that is what the headstock thread is on your Rikon.....
leehljp
Member Liaison
I think this is more common than most people realize. It doesn't take but just a tad too much pressure, which - when combined with other factors already mentioned - cause chatter.
thewishman
Member
60 degree live center helps. I still work on the inboard barrel - through the sanding - and then switch and work on the other barrel in the inboard position.
To correct the out of roundness, stop the lathe and rotate the barrel, but not the bushings. I do that three of four times, once when about 1/8" of material left, again when nearly to the bushings, and again just before I sand the blank. Alamocdc (Billy) taught me that when I was but a wee lad in the penturning world (in 2006, I remember it like it was just last year[]).
Chris
To correct the out of roundness, stop the lathe and rotate the barrel, but not the bushings. I do that three of four times, once when about 1/8" of material left, again when nearly to the bushings, and again just before I sand the blank. Alamocdc (Billy) taught me that when I was but a wee lad in the penturning world (in 2006, I remember it like it was just last year[
]).Chris
PenPal
Member
Jerry 0,
Two things came to me years ago the whip in any form making pens is intolerable to me,to use precious fingers resting on any rotating wooden,metal object on the lathe is an invitation to injury.
I make 1/2 a pen at a time, easy to do ,ensures control and care and no I do not make a living with pens as so many members appear to.
Many times and to repeat for the last time in case anyone senses a personal problem in this I use a live centre with removeable point,substitute this with a brass sleeve with a snug hole to fit the mandrel about 3/8 of an inch deep. You can use a machine bolt for a mandrel or drill rod.
I use a collet chuck mandel about 29 bucks my money here,fix the 2 morse end that is already threaded thru the headstock and leave it there.Cut the thread off and shorten the mandrel for 1/2 a pen.
The live centre has two common use bearings, easily replaced, last for ages.
Have fun and enjoy your turning and I could relate for an hour the
real pleasure I have sharing help and blanks,methods and the pure delight pens give to the receivers and me.I have a lot of American friends and I realise you as well as us here are blessed with an abundance of beautiful timbers enjoy. Peter
Two things came to me years ago the whip in any form making pens is intolerable to me,to use precious fingers resting on any rotating wooden,metal object on the lathe is an invitation to injury.
I make 1/2 a pen at a time, easy to do ,ensures control and care and no I do not make a living with pens as so many members appear to.
Many times and to repeat for the last time in case anyone senses a personal problem in this I use a live centre with removeable point,substitute this with a brass sleeve with a snug hole to fit the mandrel about 3/8 of an inch deep. You can use a machine bolt for a mandrel or drill rod.
I use a collet chuck mandel about 29 bucks my money here,fix the 2 morse end that is already threaded thru the headstock and leave it there.Cut the thread off and shorten the mandrel for 1/2 a pen.
The live centre has two common use bearings, easily replaced, last for ages.
Have fun and enjoy your turning and I could relate for an hour the
real pleasure I have sharing help and blanks,methods and the pure delight pens give to the receivers and me.I have a lot of American friends and I realise you as well as us here are blessed with an abundance of beautiful timbers enjoy. Peter
wdcav1952
Activities Manager Emeritus
Jerry,
You order the Beall Collet chuck based on the TPI of your lathe. The standard seems to be 1 x 8tpi. Then you order collets to fit your mandrels. The 7mm or "A" mandrel uses a 1/4 inch collet and the larger "B" mandrel uses a 5/16 inch collet. These are all the collets you <u>need</u> to have, but the other sizes are nice to have.
Then, you need the High precision mandrel shafts. I got mine from Ernie here: http://www.beartoothwoods.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=35_42
It is a bit of expense, but your turning results will improve, especially if you get the 60 degree live center.
FWIW,
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