A Challenge

[ldb2000]

The Challenge now has a Home
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=36211
This is the link to the Advanced Penturning Forum :bananen_smilies051: which is where it really belongs



I'm posting this here because I didn't want to wake anybody up over in the Advanced Penmaking forum . :devil:
I'm making a challenge to anybody interested , " Make a kitless pen " .
Ok , before you say " Oh no here he goes again " or " I can't do that , I don't have the tools (or skill) " or any other one of about a dozen different excuses I have heard , hear me out .
This challenge is to make a "Kitless Slimline" , any style is fine and any material is also good ( although I will tell you that wood is NOT the best stuff to use for this , any of the Plastics works best , ie; homebrew PR , Commercial Acrylics , Tru-Stone , heck even the Blue Plastic Pipe that some are selling or trading will work ) , the only requirement is that is that you use 1 or more 7mm tubes and a Slimline 7mm transmission , you can make it clipless if you want or use any old clip you have laying around ( anything from a slimline clip to a Barron clip will work , depending on how thick your finished pen will be ) .
If your interested in trying this either post here or PM me and we can work out the details , if your NOT interested please don't pollute this thread with comments like " Why the heck would I want to do this " or " I could never do this " , your input is not wanted !!!!
For those interested but are unsure if you could do it , you'll never know unless you try and those that think they don't have the right tools all you need is a lathe , some turning tools , some drill bits , and a mandrel and live center (I would hope if you are here you have at least these things :biggrin A Scroll chuck or a Collet chuck will be a big help but it's not required .
If you need some help just ask and I or (hopefully) others will help you figure out how to work around the problems.
This could be a lot of fun and a learning experience for some but to find out you gotta try .
This is NOT for just the select few that know how to do it , EVERYBODY is welcome
So Who's in?
If this takes off we can move it over to the Advanced Forum and wake a few people up , kitless pens DON'T have to be Rollerball or Fountain Pens .


Edit: After getting several requests , I have relaxed the rules for this challenge the new rules are ;
Everything is optional except the Cross style refill (Can't be a slimline without a cross style refill) and the refill must be replaceable without breaking the pen (this ain't a build a better Bic contest) and the refill tip must be covered when it is in your pocket (Don't want anyone getting ink stains on their shirt) :biggrin:

 

[jthompson1995]

I'm up for it, though I'm notoriously slow for making pens. Any timeframe in mind?

 

[ldb2000]

Nope .
It's not a race just an experiment .

 

[its_virgil]

Some clarification please. How does a "kitless" pen still use the kit's parts. Do you mean for this pen to be a modified slimline...i.e. one that does not look like a slimline. Or, am I missing something?
Do a good turn daily!
Don

 

[Larry Gottlieb]

I'll try it.

My problem is that I don't think that I have ever seen a kitless pen.
Does this mean we make the nib and finial?

Larry

 

[ldb2000]

Hey Don , if you can make a TRUE kitless Slimline PLEASE make one , I for one would love to see it done .
For the purpose of the Challenge the term "kitless" means that the only MANUFACTURED parts that are allowed are the 7mm tubes and the Transmission (Both of which DO NOT have to be purchased in a kit , I just bought 7 mm tubes and transmissions from woodpenpro in bulk so they are not part of a kit exactly).
Clips from any kit are allowed because they are the one sticky point in kitless pens but a clip is not required
But if you insist on semantics then call it a Modified Slimline Challenge

 

[ldb2000]

Larry the answer is YES you must make your own nib and finial .
Not as hard to do as you might think .
Look in my photo album and you will find a few that I posted and there have been several other people that have made them also , search "Kitless" and "Modified slimline" for some examples .

 

[ldb2000]

Guys , I'm not trying to be rude (although some may think I am) but I did ask that if you DON'T want in , keep your negative comments to yourselves . I don't want to waste bandwidth defending MY Challenge .
Thank You

 

[MarkHix]

Sounds like a great chance to improve and learn. I'm may be slow but I am in!

 

[its_virgil]

Thanks Butch, that's much better. I'm not insisting on semantics, just rules, which are much clearer now. I'm not trying to be difficult, really I'm not.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

Hey Don , if you can make a TRUE kitless Slimline PLEASE make one , I for one would love to see it done .
For the purpose of the Challenge the term "kitless" means that the only MANUFACTURED parts that are allowed are the 7mm tubes and the Transmission (Both of which DO NOT have to be purchased in a kit , I just bought 7 mm tubes and transmissions from woodpenpro in bulk so they are not part of a kit exactly).
Clips from any kit are allowed because they are the one sticky point in kitless pens but a clip is not required
But if you insist on semantics then call it a Modified Slimline Challenge

 

[ldb2000]

No problem Don .
I'm still standing on my original use of the words "Kitless Slimline" in as much as a Slimline kit does not need to be purchased as you CAN buy 7mm tubes and transmissions separately , as for the clip ,"It's Optional" because as you know clips are the one thing that makes a TRUE kitless pen very hard to make unless you are one of the lucky people with access to metal working equipment (heck I'm stuck with Pewter or PMC to make clips from , they work but to be strong enough they have to be a little thicker then I like) .
If you can , how about joining us on this little adventure into (semi?)kitless pen making ?
I'm sure with your knowledge you could answer some of the questions that I can't and help make this a great learning experience and fun for everyone involved .

 

[shull]

Sounds interesting, I have never tried a "kitless" pen but am willing to expand my horizons.

 

[Russianwolf]

I'm up for the attempt, as soon as I get through turning for the troops that is.

 

[its_virgil]

OK, I'm in. I just came in from the shop and playing with making the nib. I think this will be fun.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

If you can , how about joining us on this little adventure into (semi?)kitless pen making ?
I'm sure with your knowledge you could answer some of the questions that I can't and help make this a great learning experience and fun for everyone involved .

 

[ldb2000]

Great Don , glad to see your in and I hope that some of the other Big Names (the people here , like you , I respect and admire the most) will join in as well .
I would also like to invite all the Lurkers here (you know who you are , I was one myself) stop just reading and start having fun with the rest of us , I'm sure that some things will be learned that may help you with your penmaking and who knows you might just teach us a thing or too as well .
Theres no time frame and no prizes but I'm sure we will all get something from this Challenge .

 

[fiferb]

Since you said there is no time frame for completion, I'm in. I have several things to make before I can start but that will give me time to put my thinking cap on and do some research.

 

[Hosspen]

I like a challenge (and this will be a challenge for me as i don't have a scroll chuck or collet chuck) I'm thinking "how can I use or modify my 4-jaw chuck to hold something small as a pen centered in it?". Any ideas on that?
The problem-solving has already started and that's where a lot of learning takes place. Thanks Butch! It's going to be very interesting!
I'm on the slow side too.

 

[ldb2000]

Hoss , What 4 jaw chuck do you have , I'm quite sure we can make it work for you .

 

[Paul in OKC]

It can be done. Here is one I did a few years ago just to do something different. I did use the clip. Other 'kit' parts are made from corian.

 

[cozee]

It is "kitless" as described and only took about 10 minutes. I didn't polish the brass though, just trying to see how quickly it could be done!!!!!

 

[LEAP]

If you want kitless slimlines take a look through skiprats album. He does them all the time. They can be good inspirations for anyone attempting your challenge. Would you accept one with out the tubes? Just the transmission and refill?

 

[ldb2000]

Yep it's kitless , not exactly what I had in mind but it is within the rules and as such is allowable , and thank you for an idea .
for everyone wondering how to "make a nib" , here's your first solution "Bite the Bullet" well not literally but you could try using a "Copper" (I do believe they are copper) bullet from a cartridge , just drill it out and figure how to attach it to the 7mm tube .
Greg thank you , Do you think you might be willing to answer any questions along these lines ?

 

[ldb2000]

Phill if you want to try , please do , I suggested tubes because after some experimenting I found that in normal use the glued in transmission eventually broke loose and the pen fell apart , but if you have a way to insure against this happening we are all ears

 

[ldb2000]

Paul , Thank you :worship:, that is exactly what I am talking about , the Corian idea is fantastic , gotta try that one myself .

 

[Modelmaker]

I'll join in. I need to get a couple of commissions finished first.

Should we post pics here?

 

[avbill]

Just so every one knows Russ Fairfield in his videos goes over how to make a kitless slimline. I'm in but with one thing different no 7mm tube now that's just me!

 

[Blind_Squirrel]

Does it HAVE to have the tubes?

Here is one I did only using a transmission:

It started out as a piece of 1/2" aluminium rod.

 

[Gagler]

As a long-time lurker who is now participating, please count me in. No guarantee as to the results, but it should be a challenge!

 

[brez]

I'll give it a try.

Mike

 

[hehndc]

I'm in, time to stretch the envelope.

Steve

 

[bananajeep]

Count me in this looks like fun.

Mike

 

[Hosspen]

Butch,
My 4-jaw chuck is a nova G3 by Teknatool. I haven't used it in a while but think the inside is a little too big to hold a small pen sized object. I know the jaws are way big for that. Any suggestions are appreciated!

 

[cozee]

Yep it's kitless , not exactly what I had in mind but it is within the rules and as such is allowable , and thank you for an idea .
for everyone wondering how to "make a nib" , here's your first solution "Bite the Bullet" well not literally but you could try using a "Copper" (I do believe they are copper) bullet from a cartridge , just drill it out and figure how to attach it to the 7mm tube .
Greg thank you , Do you think you might be willing to answer any questions along these lines ?

Copper they are. Albeit most are copper clad lead. There are solid copper rounds available which is highly recommended over the lead centered ones. Safety issues ya know!!!

 

[ldb2000]

Ok , after a bad day (back problems) , I'm back .
First I want to say thanks to everyone that has so far joined us in this little quest into ....errr....(here it is Whether you know it or not) ADVANCED PENMAKING :bananen_smilies051:
First , for the noobs (new to this kind of penmaking and in some cases new to penmaking and this forum) when you decide what kind of pen you want to make , think about what materials you want to use and if they are suitable for your design and your talents ( I would hate to see someone waste an expensive piece of Tru-stone or other special blank ) so ask questions if your not sure .
Remember , for you , this will be a good learning experience , the things you learn here will even help you make better kit pens .
Try to figure things out for yourself , ask about anything that may concern Safety issues (no one should get hurt trying a new way to hold a blank or drill a hole), learn to use the "Search" feature of the forum and use it , there are tons of information here in these forums on just about anything penmaking and if you can't find what your looking for ask , I'm sure someone will have an answer for you .
And also remember , as Stevers has in his signature line , "The only dumb question is the one that you haven't asked yet" .

Second , for the People that have a working knowledge of the more advanced techniques , PLEASE help whenever you can , remember , you once didn't know which end of a skew to use , ok so I exaggerate a bit , but you know what I mean . Try to NOT chastise someone for asking a noob question , and answer if you can , don't just refer them to the search , sometimes you just don't know how to ask the search engine the right question .

I'm collecting names of who's in (so far we have 15 definite and a few that will be hearing from me) and will post them all in a day or two , I'm still hoping to see some other more advanced turners get involved ( Guys , this is what this place is supposed to be all about , helping others ) , and some more Lurkers ( I promise , we won't bite .... I Hope :laugh come on people stop reading and JOIN US .

Start thinking about what kind of semikitless slimline you want to make (Basic slimline , Longwood/Sierra , Elegant Beauty , etc) and what you want to make it from (Acrylic , Tru-stone , etc) and remember to tell us what you are trying to make when you ask any questions about making it .

I think that's it , if I think of anything else you'll be hearing from me (whether you want to or not :biggrin

 

[ldb2000]

Does it HAVE to have the tubes?

Here is one I did only using a transmission:

It started out as a piece of 1/2" aluminium rod.

Ok Scott Tubes are optional

Butch,
My 4-jaw chuck is a nova G3 by Teknatool. I haven't used it in a while but think the inside is a little too big to hold a small pen sized object. I know the jaws are way big for that. Any suggestions are appreciated!

Hoss do you have any other jaw sets , like the Pin Jaws or the Step jaws ?

Copper they are. Albeit most are copper clad lead. There are solid copper rounds available which is highly recommended over the lead centered ones. Safety issues ya know!!!

Greg are these Copper bullets available anywhere special ?, and yes Safety First so No lead bullets

 

[theturningcircle]

Count me in. This should be fun.
Ian

 

[rjwolfe3]

I'm willing to try.

 

[Hosspen]

modifying a chuck to hold a pen

"Hoss do you have any other jaw sets , like the Pin Jaws or the Step jaws ?"

Butch , I'm afraid not. That doesn't sound like something I can make, is it? I thought about ripping a piece of PVC pipe lengthwise & center it in the middle of my chuck, Has anyone out here tried that before? Any other ideas?

 

[bitshird]

Butch; since I'm always up for something different (strange) me thinks I'll give it a try. it'll take a few weeks since I can use my buggered hand a little bit, plus after seeing the blue one you did a few days back, I have an idea

 

[Russianwolf]

I like a challenge (and this will be a challenge for me as i don't have a scroll chuck or collet chuck) I'm thinking "how can I use or modify my 4-jaw chuck to hold something small as a pen centered in it?". Any ideas on that?
The problem-solving has already started and that's where a lot of learning takes place. Thanks Butch! It's going to be very interesting!
I'm on the slow side too.

Hoss, One solution is to use a blank that is longer than you need.

Say the section you want to work on is 3 inches long. Cut a 4 inch piece of stock and you'll have an extra 3/4+ to hold in the chuck while you turn the remainder down to pen size.