Carbide tool

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DJBPenmaker

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I hear a lot of people mentioning carbide tipped tools for turning pens. I've never tried one and so I was wondering what Penmakers here use i.e. size and profile before I take the plunge. Any pointers much appreciated.

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jasonlmartin

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Feb 7, 2017
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Myerstown Pa
I hear a lot of people mentioning carbide tipped tools for turning pens. I've never tried one and so I was wondering what Penmakers here use i.e. size and profile before I take the plunge. Any pointers much appreciated.

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I am at the same place you are, so I am very interested in the responses!

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leehljp

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Feb 6, 2005
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Tunica, Mississippi,
I know you want to hear the users. I have three basic ones:

• Round insert, 5/8" I think
• Square insert
• Radius Square

I personally use the radius square more than the other two. I do use the round on bowls some. I don't like the square as I have to be perfect in my cutting, or I will have a tendency to gouge an edge. Round works on bowls for me and in shaping some. I like the radius, particularly large radius. I can make a good straight blank cut with a radius and like that. That's the shapes to consider. Now on to the overall tool:

I am one to try new technology and tools soon after introduction, and I didn't shy away from the carbide when introduced, but I was overseas so it was a little more difficult and expensive getting them over there. I bought the one I used most back in 2011 or 12 when back here in the USA.

That said, I learned to turn by sharpening my own tools. And I soon became admittedly OCD about SHARP. Most people would say that I am too over the top. That said, I can tell that even the best inserts that I have do not have the feel of my own sharpening of my HSS tools. Of course my sharpening will last a minute or two before it needs a couple of swipes to hone it back to "Sharp" - While the Carbide Inserts that are/feel about 90% as sharp as my HSS tools - they stay at 90% for a looonnng time. They do well at that stage of sharpness. If I had started with carbide, I probably would not have fooled with the sharpening. But since I did start with HSS and mastered the sharpness, it has a feel to me that carbide doesn't.

I don't always need that stage of sharpness, but on occasion I need to turn blanks or bowls (segmented with different materials and colors) so that sanding is not needed. I "can" get that with carbide, but there is a fine difference in the finish of carbide vs my own HSS sharpened tools (my tools do better). As I said, most of the time I don't need that level of sharpness and so I use the carbide for rough shaping, which it does excellent and I don't have the HSS getting dull turning a square blank to round.

I use both HSS and Carbide. To me it is not a case of choosing one over the other.

One more comment: I haven't bought any inserts in the past 2 years as I have plenty from 3 to 4 years ago. But I have been keeping up with the carbide insert development on occasion . . . and from what I am reading, there seems to be better carbides with finer edges being made today. I haven't tried them but from what I have read, they seem to overcome the problems of 6 to 7 years ago in which carbide molecular-logy was (in laymen's terms) too course to be as sharp as HSS can be. Today, I think it is close and maybe even a toss up.
 
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JimB

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Just my opinion... if you already have HSS there's no reason to get carbide. I started turning 10 years ago and learned on HSS. I bouhgt a set of EWT carbide a few years ago at an Estate Sale because, like you, I was curious. I used them for a while but went back to HSS because I can do much more with the HSS and they provide a much better, smoother finish cut.

BTW, I turn everything from pens to bowls. The only time I use carbide is when someone asks about carbide I show and demonstrate mine for them and let them give them a try.

There is one situation where carbide is better. If you have any physical limitations with your hands or arms and have trouble controlling HSS tools then carbide will be easier to use.

Just my opinion. I'm sure others will feel differently.
 

MRDucks2

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Bristow, IN
I got the Magic Skew during the Christmas sale and have used it with the round insert so far. I actually forgot where I put the radius insert until a week ago.

I use it. I like it. I still use my HSS tools. I am about 10 months into pen turning. I have been told not to use carbide on Acrylester blanks, so I did and it can be turned fine with it.

I have used it to rough and finish and done the same with the HSS. I doubt I will ever be converted to solely one or the other but to soon to tell.

Two things I notice:
1-if I don't like the results use the HSS the carbide does better and vice-versa.
2-took a while to get used to the short handle of the standard Magic Skew vs the medium handle HSS tools I was used to.

Would I buy the Magic Skew again based on my experience so far? Yes.




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jttheclockman

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Feb 22, 2005
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I too am a HSS guy but do use carbide especially on mixed medium blanks such as metals and acrylic. HSS will dull quickly but the carbide is a good use in this case. I use most radius square, round and diamond shaped carbide. here is an example of the use of carbide and metal and acrylic. I use the easy wood tools with the long handles.
 

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scrofts1219

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Fairview (north of Dallas), Texas
I love the carbide tools. I started doing pens and bowls about 2 years ago and had never used HSS or carbide. As a new learner, I really struggled with HSS and how to use them consistently and especially how to sharpen them. I use nothing else but carbide now.

The carbide tips can be found at good prices and you can easily put an edge back on them in seconds to extend their life. I use the larger size cutters and by far the radius cutter gets the most use on pens. I use the round for fine tuning, especially to get close to the bushings. I like the extra control. I have only used EWT and I have no complaints. I dropped one and buggered up the cutting end badly and I sent to EWT service to see how much to repair it. They sent me back a brand new one, plus an extra tip, overnight. They couldn't have been nicer.

They work great on acrylic, but I don't like acrylic as much as wood. Except alumilite resin blanks. I could turn those all day. There are some small suppliers of those custom blanks. More expensive but well worth it for special gifts. I found a place who does alumilite Eagle Boy Scout blanks. I make them for all my Eagle Scouts (I'm a scout leader).

Be happy to answer any other questions.
 

Dr_N

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Jan 19, 2018
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St. Charles, MO
I'll echo what many of the others are saying. I didn't care for the square cutter, the round is useful for fine work (like getting right to the bushing, if you use them) and the radius gets the most use. I have the small EWT set and wish I had the larger as I think the larger radius cutter would be even more useful. That being said, I still find I go back to my skew and smaller gouge for some cuts, possibly because I've done them that way for years and feel more comfortable with my trusty old tools.

I would say that it's been worth the money for me too have the option to use the carbide. Though I don't use them exclusively, I do find that they keep a sharp edge for a long time and are my typical go to tool for most pens. Hope something here is useful to you.
 

mecompco

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Fairfield, Maine
I use the Magical Skew (obtained thanks to Bob's generosity as my prize on the Loser's Train last year). I've not touched my HSS tools since I got it. It is just a pen turning machine. Granted I didn't pay for it, but if it were lost, I'd buy another immediately. I use the R2 cutter from start to finish. I've done at least 100 pens with the cutter that came with it, sharpening on fine and extra fine diamond cards. If you're unfamiliar with the Magical Skew, it's unique feature is that the shaft is hex shaped and allows one to easily maintain a "skew-like" angle to the work piece. Of course you can also use it as a scraper. I use mine both ways depending upon how the cutting is going. With a sharp carbide, this will leave a nice finish on most plastic blanks with only minimal sanding required.
 

turncrazy43

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Marietta, GA
The carbides work well for me. Still use HSS on some things. I prefer the EWT Midi size. The Radius R2 cutter gets the most use and then the round one. With the Midi size tool handle the R2 cutter is 10.5MM wide. Cutters from Easywood are a bit pricey. I have found them for a more reasonable price at AZ Carbide and from Eddie Castlin at Big guy productions. You can also re-sharpen them with the use of a diamond card.
Turncrazy43
 

Herb G

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I started with carbon steel tools. They can be sharpened even sharper than HSS but it wears down quickly.
So, I bought a full set of HSS tools, and struggled to sharpen them correctly.
I have the jigs, tools, etc. to sharpen them, but I still struggle to this day to get the edge I want.

So, I bought a set of carbide tools from Hanau ( John ) on this forum.
Hands down, they are the best thing since sliced bread for me to turn with.
No more struggling to set a jig to an exact angle and hope it won't work loose while I'm using it to sharpen a HSS tool.

I had John make me a special tool for turning pens. It has a smaller shaft that the full size tools & it's great for getting into tight areas.
If you decide to go with carbide, Hanau is the best place to get them from.

:wink:
 

wood-of-1kind

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I have a "biased" opinion given that I have sold hundreds of the "original" carbide tools that I developed and have custom manufactured. Carbide tools win hands down if you would rather spend time turning as opposed to "wasting" time sharpening HSS tools.
 

Rounder

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Marlin, TX
I am almost exclusively carbide user. I made my own when I first started turning as I didn't have sharpening equipment. I use a radius square cutter. The straight square you have to be exact with. I am not very good with the HSS because I rarely use them and never learned the techniques needed to be proficient.
 
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I'm in the "it's good to have both" camp. When I first started turning I had a lot of learning to do with a gouge/skew and eventually went the easy way out with carbide. However, I've since practiced a bit more with my steel tools and find situations where they are my go-to tools.

Acrylester is just plain easier to turn with a sharp skew. You get a better finish and it's less likely to catch. Also, about 90% of the time if I'm working on a square resin blank I pull out my gouge. Once it's round I'll switch to carbide.

Ultimately, you'll just have to figure out what works for you. I will say that a carbide tool or 3 is a good thing to have in the arsenal.
 

eharri446

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Woodpecker has came out with their own brand of carbide turning tools. They have one which has 45 degree bevels on both sides and the bottom is flat.

From what I have heard from some people who use them, they are great. You can use the square just like a skew.
 

Paul in OKC

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Oklahoma City, OK, USA.
I have a "biased" opinion given that I have sold hundreds of the "original" carbide tools that I developed and have custom manufactured. Carbide tools win hands down if you would rather spend time turning as opposed to "wasting" time sharpening HSS tools.

While I appreciate your opinion, sharpening HSS tools is not a 'waste' of time. I use carbide every day as a machinist. Great for metal. But for me, and my opinion, they are not as good for wood. As has been said, by Hank, the carbides do not have the same sharp edge as HSS. They are designed for metal, and the 'dull' is designed to resist heat that turning metal makes. A sharp edge allows heat to build up and wears down quickly. There are some finer edges being made that will improve the woodworking application. Using a diamond hone on them for woodworking will eventually get that edge. I use 99% HSS, and have a carbide tool I have used, but it is not my preffered 'weapon' :)
That all said, as a machinist I am pretty annul about things, and sharpening was no different. I used to fret over it, until I read an article by Richard Raffin. He used to fret as well, and decided that he wanted to spend more time turning and less sharpening, so he got a basic bench grinder and kept it close by. When the tool got dull, he swung over and touched it up, and got back to turning. As long as the relief angle remains reasonably close to original, you will be fine. Good HSS makes a difference as well.
Anyway, it is as you see, to each his own.
 

MiteyF

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Jan 27, 2018
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Bay area
I recently picked up my first and only carbide tool (magical skew) for turning a few specialty blanks. I find myself using it on the very few plastic blanks that I turn as well. However for wood, I still much prefer HSS. For me personally, it's a nice tool to have in the arsenal, but one I very rarely use.
 

wood-of-1kind

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I have a "biased" opinion given that I have sold hundreds of the "original" carbide tools that I developed and have custom manufactured. Carbide tools win hands down if you would rather spend time turning as opposed to "wasting" time sharpening HSS tools.

While I appreciate your opinion, sharpening HSS tools is not a 'waste' of time. I use carbide every day as a machinist. Great for metal. But for me, and my opinion, they are not as good for wood. As has been said, by Hank, the carbides do not have the same sharp edge as HSS. They are designed for metal, and the 'dull' is designed to resist heat that turning metal makes. A sharp edge allows heat to build up and wears down quickly. There are some finer edges being made that will improve the woodworking application. Using a diamond hone on them for woodworking will eventually get that edge. I use 99% HSS, and have a carbide tool I have used, but it is not my preffered 'weapon' :)
That all said, as a machinist I am pretty annul about things, and sharpening was no different. I used to fret over it, until I read an article by Richard Raffin. He used to fret as well, and decided that he wanted to spend more time turning and less sharpening, so he got a basic bench grinder and kept it close by. When the tool got dull, he swung over and touched it up, and got back to turning. As long as the relief angle remains reasonably close to original, you will be fine. Good HSS makes a difference as well.
Anyway, it is as you see, to each his own.


Paul, the carbide inserts that I sell (square and round) are specifically made to cut cut wood. I am familiar with the carbide bits that machinists use and these are a totally different ' animal'. I did qualify up front that my opinion is totally 'biased' towards carbide.
 

Herb G

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I'm in the "it's good to have both" camp. However, I've since practiced a bit more with my steel tools and find situations where they are my go-to tools.
Ultimately, you'll just have to figure out what works for you. I will say that a carbide tool or 3 is a good thing to have in the arsenal.

*NOTE- Quote edited for clarity for my response.*

I agree...to a point. I still have all the tools I ever bought or that I inherited.
I own a Trent Bosch 3/4" HSS bowl gouge "hogger" that is the single most expensive tool I ever bought for turning. I bought a 3/4" gouge & 24" handle from Trent. I think I paid about $225 for the setup I ordered.
I bought it for a specific reason - strictly for hogging off stock to round a blank with (spindle or bowl). It is an absolute monster of a hogging off tool.

I don't use it very often, but when I need it, nothing else works like it.
However, if it wasn't for the custom made pen turning tools I bought from Hanau (John) I don't think I'd be turning pens still.
Like a few people have already noted, tools are highly personal.
Everyone has different tool needs for different projects.

So, in a nutshell, you must determine which way you want to go ultimately, and decide which tool is best for you. My final advice would be to ask around, maybe attend a local turning club meeting & see if the members will allow you to borrow their tools (in their presence) to try out and see what the best one for you is.

Hope this helps someone out there.
 

DJBPenmaker

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Nov 10, 2016
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Cheshire, UK
So, after all this great insight and good advice from so many it seems there is room for both types of tool in the workshop and as I'm looking to do some segmenting such as Jttheclockman has shown here I'm going to take the plunge. I'd only keep wondering if I didn't!
Thanks to every one of you who has contributed to this thread. Much appreciated.
Derek

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JPW062

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Nov 3, 2016
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Ohio
I round spindles with a HSS roughing gouge.
I then do rough shaping with a large EWT round insert tool.
I then finish with a fingernail profile spindle or bowl gouge and when necessary a skew.

Using the carbide to get rough shape seems to save me a lot of time sharpening.
 
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