CA Finish Struggles

[calebsg]

Hi folks,

I spent a couple hours last night trying to get the CA finish perfect.

One thing I can't quite see from the instructions is how long you hold your CA applicator (wax paper or styrofoam) to the pen after you put the thin and the thick CA on. Do you do it just long enough to spread it, or hold it there for a few seconds? And how much CA do you apply?

I kept getting bumps or a chunky buildup.

TIA
Caleb

 

[calebsg]

Alrighty, looks like I'm having my own conversation here!

Anyways, I'm wondering if I missed the point now. Do you just 'build up' the CA until it's thick enough to be sanded/polished to a smooth surface without sanding through it? Or is there a way to get the smooth glassy surface without sanding/polishing the CA into shape?

Caleb

 

[jeff]

Are you using just CA or an oil finish with it? Scott posted his BLO (boiled linseed oil) method here a while ago. I think Scott has been happy with the finish after a couple coats of CA without further polishing. If you do polish, you'll want to go very easy on it so as not to break through the CA. Search for BLO and you'll find his posts.

 

[calebsg]

Just CA. I don't have BLO, just Behr's Tung Oil Finish and Mineral Oil. Tried the mineral oil approach and it just left a fuzzy tacky mess.

Caleb

 

[Rick Prevett]

Caleb -

I've got about 6 different sets of instructions on how to apply CA as a finish, which I've gathered from around the 'net over the past 8 months or so. Here's a copy of the first one I saved, and it works just as well as any of the others. (Credit to whoever originally wrote this):



'There are a number of different ways to apply CA as a finish. Here's a good basic method. After sanding with, say, 150 grit, turn the lathe down as much as possible, and drip thin CA on the top of the spinning pen
blank while holding the sandpaper against the underside of the blank. This will create a slurry with the CA
and the sanding dust which will the fill the pores. When this sets, sand the rest of the way through the grits.
This will sand through the seal coat, but the surface will still be sealed where it counts. After you have
sanded, turn the lathe down again, and holding wax paper or plastic against the underside of the spinning pen blank, drip thin CA onto the top of the blank, and use the wax paper or plastic to distribute the CA evenly across the blank. Put on a second and third coat using thick CA, and then a fourth coat using thin again. When this sets you will probably find that the surface is uneven. Sand by hand with 320 sandpaper until smooth again, then lightly sand up through the Micro Mesh again, and you will end up with a wonderful shine.'

If you don't have MicroMesh, just sand up to the finest grit you have, and burnish with brown paper bag material.

HTH, any more questions, please ask.

rick

 

[calebsg]

The grief continues. I have been fighting this all evening [] -- I thought I had it made on this last coat, as I had put thick CA on in a nice smooth shiny glossy coat. Stopped the lathe for a second and it looked great. Turned it back on at 500 rpm (slowest speed) and came inside for 20 minutes. I go back out and this is what it looks like:

<b>Image Insert:</b><br />

<br /> 18.34&nbsp;KB

The rough parts are dry. The glossy parts are still wet. Using thick CA I bought from Lee Valley just a couple months ago. Temperature in the shop is 15-20 Celsius (60-70F?) and humidity is fairly low. Wood is cocobolo, for a cigar pen.

Why would my last coat of thick CA go from glossy smooth to drying like this?

Thanks,
Caleb

 

[superdaveprc]

Caleb-
Without seeing how you actually do your finish with teh CA, I am gonna have to speculate on a few things.
First, I'll explain how I do mine, and then you can take it from there.
When I do a CA finish, it is usually on Antler or other soft/punky wood.
I take my Thin CA, and using a trashed piece of hight grit sandpaper, I liberally apply the thin CA while the lathe is stopped, and roate it by hand to get even coverage. As it sits on the barrels, I run the snadpaper over the barrels using the back of the paper, not the abrasive side, until it begins to stick. By now, it's pretty smooth, but will have a few bumps in it.
I take a wood block wrapped in high grit paper (320 or higher), and remove the bumps while the lathe runs slowly, so I can see what I am doing.
When I get the barrels nice and smooth, I hit it again with the thin CA, doing the same thing I did before.
After 2 coats, and a buff with steel wool, I finish sand with Micro Mesh up to 8000 grit.
If this has confused you, email me on the Yahoo Penturners group, and I'll see if I can explain further.

Originally posted by calebsg
<br />Hi folks,

I spent a couple hours last night trying to get the CA finish perfect.

One thing I can't quite see from the instructions is how long you hold your CA applicator (wax paper or styrofoam) to the pen after you put the thin and the thick CA on. Do you do it just long enough to spread it, or hold it there for a few seconds? And how much CA do you apply?

I kept getting bumps or a chunky buildup.

TIA
Caleb

 

[Scott]

Hi Caleb,

CA is a pain! I don't know why it did that to your pen. But I do know that sometimes it does. Don't be fooled into thinking that the CA goes on nice and smooth and stays that way, requiring only a little polishing. With most CA finishes it ends up kind of lumpy. Sanding and smoothing this finish after it is applied is essential. The closest I have come to getting a smooth finish right off the bat is by using the BLO trick mentioned above. Your tung oil finish should do the same trick. Nonetheless, further sanding will usually be required, meaning sometimes you will have the pleasure of sanding through the finish!

I usually don't hold the applicator to the pen barrel very long. Long enough to spread the glue and even it out. Otherwise you may enjoy the thrill of gluing your applicator to the spinning barrel! BTDT. But I encourage you to try the method with the oil - BLO or your tung oil. It really does help.

I hope this helps!

Scott.

 

[Daniel]

For a year I was using the plastic bags that the pen kits come in to apply the CA. and it usually came out like this. being this rough makes it hard to not sand through it when you are smoothing and polishing it. Which is required no matter what methode i have used. recently I started using wax paper to apply and I get it much smoother. I apply the paper to the blank just long enough to spread the CA. not worrying about evenness or smoothness. I will get it smooth withthe naext step which is to start sanding the CA with 320 or 400 grit sandpaper depending on just how rough it is. I then sand and polish the CA up to 12,000 Micro mesh. you could also sand up to as High a grit as you like and buff it if that is your preference.
The CA does not go on glass smooth. you have to smooth and polish it in additional steps.

 

[calebsg]

Thanks for the help. Part of what is bugging me is that the CA is taking so long to dry. Is that normal? Is that why many people suggest using the accelerator? Even after a 1/2 hour, the stuff is softer than the wood under it... I'll see what it's like in the morning and if it polishes up. Thanks guys, Caleb

 

[melchioe]

I use wax paper to spread it, and it's always lumpy. With lathe off, rotating by hand, I apply 1 coat of thin CA, spray with accelerator, apply 2 or 3 coats of medium thick CA, accelerator after each. As more goes on, be careful, the wax paper is more likely to stick sooner... I keep the wax paper on only as long as I need to get it spread well. The first few times, I wanted to rotate it just one more time, and dang, does that wax paper stick quickly[:0]...

Then I use a skew chisel (gently!) to even out the lumps - do it until almost all gloss is gone (this shows the peaks are gone). Then I start sanding with 400, 600, then micromesh.

The accelerator is essential. The first time I used CA, I thought CA dries quick, and 12 hours later I was puzzled by it not drying. I realized later that putting thick coats on makes it orders of magnitude thicker than when gluing tight-fitting parts.

I've also found that I need to wait a bit after putting on accelerator. If I apply the next CA coat too soon, before the accelerator evaporates completely, I get funky white puffy "growths" in spots. I also wipe the pen off with a paper towel after each accelerator.

 

[Daniel]

A half hour seems like a very long time to me. I've had to wait before but more like 5 minutes. don't have any idea why it wouldn't be drying faster other than the suggestion about thickness above.

 

[timdaleiden]

Originally posted by calebsg
<br />The grief continues. I have been fighting this all evening [] -- I thought I had it made on this last coat, as I had put thick CA on in a nice smooth shiny glossy coat. Stopped the lathe for a second and it looked great. Turned it back on at 500 rpm (slowest speed) and came inside for 20 minutes. I go back out and this is what it looks like:

<b>Image Insert:</b><br />

<br /> 18.34 KB


The rough parts are dry. The glossy parts are still wet. Using thick CA I bought from Lee Valley just a couple months ago. Temperature in the shop is 15-20 Celsius (60-70F?) and humidity is fairly low. Wood is cocobolo, for a cigar pen.

Why would my last coat of thick CA go from glossy smooth to drying like this?

Thanks,
Caleb

That Image looks quite familiar to me. I have gotten good CA finishes, but it is a lot of work, if you ask me. You might want to try just using thin CA to slurry and grain fill(Minwax sanding sealer will also work), sanding it down to 600 grit once all grain is filled, and then use Deft gloss laquer to final finish. It is more predictable to work with, and it dries quite quickly. It polishes up quite nicely, and it doesn't burn your eyes.

Good luck,
Tim

 

[jeff]

Tim - what's your exact process with the Deft? Do you brush or spray? Polish after that? I've used the stuff before on furniture and it's nice.

 

[timdaleiden]

Originally posted by jeff
<br />Tim - what's your exact process with the Deft? Do you brush or spray? Polish after that? I've used the stuff before on furniture and it's nice.

I only did one pen so far with the deft, but I was quite pleased with the results. It was simple, rather than frustrating. As I stated, I used <b>Thin</b> CA to seal, and grain fill. I sanded back down with 400, then 600 grit, both spinning and longitudinally. I then took the mandrel off the lathe and planted it into a spare board in an upright position. I used a spray can to apply several coats. After that dried, I put the mandrel back on the lathe, and used my MM. My highest grits of MM are no longer working, so I did a quick buffing after that. No friction polish was used or needed.

I was very surprised by the quick drying time of the Deft. I will continue to experiment with the deft, even with the extra few minutes of drying time, overall it is less work than CA.

 

[calebsg]

Success! Thank you all for your help and suggestions. I gave up on the cocobolo -- it has so much CA on it it'll take a while to dry, and then I'll sort it out and fix it up. In the meantime I did this Madrone (arbutus) pen. Has a fungus mark, which I think was the active ingredient in the death of the tree.

Thanks again,
Caleb


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[Daniel]

Looks like a very nice finish, adn I like the looks of the pen as well. Glad you finally got going with the CA Finish. I use it on nearly everyth pen I make, excluding acrylics.

 

[Guest]

My guess is the oil in the wood is acting as an accelerator.
WhenI just put on a coat of CA with wax paper the paper had brown Ca that did not get picked up by the pen.
Just a guess.

 

[leenollie]

Hi Caleb,

Nice Cocobolo pen. I agree with Eaglesc about the oil activating the CA. Normally, I use the BLO/CA finish for my pens. As soon as the oil comes in contact with the CA, it hardens immediately. Your Tung oil should do the same.

Applying the CA to my turned blanks, I turn my lathe down to the slowest speed setting and, while standing to the side, apply the glue going away from me. I immediately apply the oil on a Viva paper towel (You're right, Scott. Viva does work better. []) coming towards me. Be sparing on the oil, though, as you can get wavy lines in your finish if you use too much. I also apply slight pressure to help polish up a little more. After about 3-4 coats (which can be applied almost immediately after the previous coat,) you can either leave the barrels as is, or you can add other finishes you as like.

I hope this helps you in your persuit of continuously good CA finishes.

Lee Biggers
The ever curious pen turner []