Butchered 3 kits today

[Greg O'Sherwood]

As you may be aware, I am still new at this. I've made about 20 pens and most of them acrylic slims.

Today I decided to try a couple new kits from WoodPenPro.

First the Samoan (cigar) two-tone Ti Black. It took me 5 minutes of looking at pictures to figure out the bushing sequence. The instructions say the two largest go in the middle (largest in diameter or width??), so I screwed that up. Didn't figure it out until assembly and I couldn't get it apart easily. I grabbed the pliers and ended up ripping the threads off. Grabbed another of the same kit, determined to get it right since I was doing these with some nice spalted wood and the finish was the best I'd done yet. Wrecked that kit also. Now I have 2 kits that are worthless - except as spare parts in the future.

Took a dinner break to calm down. Porterhouse at Longhorn steakhouse. Yummy. So back to the lathe I go with a new attitude.

Decided to do a WPP Fishers of Men kit with BOW. The Pastor's B-day is this week. I actually was doing two of them - one for me, also. Can't mess this kit up, right??? Only one piece to it. No problem... Until the nib didn't go into the brass tube tightly enough and so I decided to add a couple drops of thick CA... (you know where this is going, don't you?)... That's right, it's supposed to be a little loose to turn the mechanism. I did the same foolish thing on the cap end. Now I have a gorgeous pen that won't work. Oh well, I'll use it as a showpiece only...

At least the second Fishers of Men came out great, so I will using that one for the gift...

Ordering some more from WPP tonight. At least their prices are great, even if I can't understand some of their instructions. I may call them before the next attempt.

Gregory of LearningByBurning Forest

 

[Texatdurango]

If I were you, I would stick with some simple to turn and simple to assemble pens like the Atlas or Polaris, Sierra or Wallstreet or slimlines until I started getting more confident with working with pen kits. You mentioned using pliars more than once, I have made several hundred pens and don't even have a pair of pliars at my work station, never needed them!

When I first started making pens I too got some kits that were so convoluted that 647 tiny parts fell out when I opened the bag. I would avoid these kits like the plague for a while. That way, you can actually enjoy pen making rather than fighting it!

Another thought, some of the crappiest, complicated kits are also some of the cheapest, and I have a suspicion why... experienced turners avoid them and retailers are stuck with them and want to dump them off on the unsuspecting newbee turners!

Good luck!

If you see

 

[rdunn12]

Don't think you are the only one who has messed up the bushings on a Cigar.I would think 4 out of 5 here have done it.And the 5th has'nt done a Cigar yet.:biggrin:I have a lot of spare parts for some reason. Don't use pliers for disassembly!I use a punch set from Victor(landfill lumber)to disassemble pens.You can also get them at Harbor Freight.Cheap and gets the job done without tearing up the pen.Well,most of the time.:biggrin:

 

[Greg O'Sherwood]

Thanks guys,

I'm not really down in the dumps about this, just learning. I'll keep the parts for spares. I should have used a punch set instead of pliers, but was too lazy to go to the main shop area. Pliers were near by after using them to crimp some electrical wire connectors for another project.


Gregory of YouLiveYouLearn Forest

 

[jimofsanston]

Hind sight.

like they say hind sight is 20 20 and that is with trifocals you know.

 

[jttheclockman]

That is all fine and good. Did you learn anything though.??? The cigar thing I can see. When they say larger of the two it is diameter wise. The thing about the Sierra Fishers of Men has got me puzzled. You say the end cap and the nib end were too loose??? Now why is that??? Did you ream these in any way??? Was it the tube that came with the kit??? You have to be careful with interchanging tubes sometimes. Would like to know the answer to that one because I am doing alot of those kits as well as the poker pen kit from them. I just sent back 5 kits because of various problems and they are taking care of it. One was odd in that the hole for the pen point in the nib was too small and when I went to turn the refill out I destroyed the tranny because it was too small. First for that one but I haven't been making pens long.

 

[GouletPens]

All I can say is welcome to pen turning. We all start at the same place. You'll get it.

 

[livertrans]

As you may be aware, I am still new at this. I've made about 20 pens and most of them acrylic slims.

Today I decided to try a couple new kits from WoodPenPro.

First the Samoan (cigar) two-tone Ti Black. It took me 5 minutes of looking at pictures to figure out the bushing sequence. The instructions say the two largest go in the middle (largest in diameter or width??), so I screwed that up. Didn't figure it out until assembly and I couldn't get it apart easily. I grabbed the pliers and ended up ripping the threads off. Grabbed another of the same kit, determined to get it right since I was doing these with some nice spalted wood and the finish was the best I'd done yet. Wrecked that kit also. Now I have 2 kits that are worthless - except as spare parts in the future.








Gregory of LearningByBurning Forest

Greg..
Woodnwhimsies sells components for the cigar pens. Perhaps you can pick up some parts that got messed up and perhaps buy a few extras planning ahead for the future.They might not be the exact finish your looking for but you can at least have some parts that you can use to save you from having some worthless kits laying around. Good luck, I'm sure that most all of us need to refer back to the cigar instructions for the right bushing placements. I admit I do and have messed up a blank or more in the past.
http://www.woodnwhimsies.com/

 

[Techie]

Greg,

We've all been there. I've blown up a few blanks and ruined a few kits. It gets easier.
What saves me is keeping the bushings together and printing out the instructions especially when doing a kit for the first time. Woodcraft has PDFs of their kit instructions.

Dennis

 

[GouletPens]

Greg,

We've all been there. I've blown up a few blanks and ruined a few kits. It gets easier.
What saves me is keeping the bushings together and printing out the instructions especially when doing a kit for the first time. Woodcraft has PDFs of their kit instructions.

Dennis

I do the same. There are several kits I work with so often I actually keep the bushings on their own mandrel at all times (I must have 12 mandrels). Other kits I rarely make and I keep a notebook with all of the instructions printed out in my shop. I'm not ashamed to admit I need to look stuff up every now and then. Oh, and the Woodcraft directions for the Cigar bushings are wrong too. That was fun to have to figure out.

The first Euro (also first acrylic) I ever made I screwed the bushings up all kinds of ways. I still have the thing in my shop as a reminder of how far I've come. Now when I do it, it just becomes a shop projectile

 

[jkeithrussell]

Sounds like you need to buy a micrometer and figure out how to measure your hardware pieces against the bushings. I don't know how anyone could mix up the bushings if you simply measure them. Cigar pens are just as easy to make as any other pen and the bushings are not complicated.

On the CA -- whatever the problem, CA is very, very rarely the answer. The more pens that I make, the fewer uses I find for CA and the more problems I eliminate by not using it. A good rule of thumb is to never use CA inside a pen. If something is loose, use a tiny bead of epoxy applied with a toothpick of q-tip. I use CA as a finish and for almost nothing else.

 

[JerryS]

I'm also new to pen turning , it was already suggested if you don't have a caliper to buy one. Harbor Fright and most of the tool supply stores carry a modest priced version .

What I do is measure all the parts and setup my bushings accordingly , this helps me a lot .

Perhaps you could soak the ends in CA de-bonder so you can remove the ends of that Fishers of Men kit . I don't know that this would work , its just a suggestions , maybe someone can give a Yes or No go on this .

 

[RussFairfield]

Don't feel bad. There are those of us who are severely "Cigar Challenged". I still haven't made a Cigar that looks "right", and I gave up. Many here rcommend it as a beginners pen and I think they're nuts. 8>)

When making the plunge away from SlimLines, I would suggest buying several sets of brass tubes, Woodcraft has them by the package, and practice making a few pen barrels before putting a pen together. Doing several practice barrels takes the pressure off.

 

[MobilMan]

Quote"Woodcraft directions for the Cigar bushings are wrong too" They're the ones I used & didn't find anything wrong. It all worked out ok. To me, a cigar is a easy pen to make.
Greg--If you'll lay all your parts out ahead of time & check out how they go together it makes it easier. Also like mentioned, get calipers, that way if some parts look alike you can measure them. Also 'patience' always helps.

 

[TowMater]

Greg,

Aren't you glad you started turning pens!!!

 

[TellicoTurning]

Don't think you are the only one who has messed up the bushings on a Cigar.I would think 4 out of 5 here have done it.And the 5th has'nt done a Cigar yet.:biggrin:I have a lot of spare parts for some reason. Don't use pliers for disassembly!I use a punch set from Victor(landfill lumber)to disassemble pens.You can also get them at Harbor Freight.Cheap and gets the job done without tearing up the pen.Well,most of the time.:biggrin:

I'm probably a little anal retentive about this, but as long as I have been turning pens, I still start with getting the instructions down (I have a note book in the shop with every pen instruction I have ever made and some I haven't made yet, but plan to someday)... I lay the bushing on the instruction page in the order the picture shows them... with some instructions, it's the only way I can understand which goes where... not all instructions are necessarily "instructions"... just techno ramble I think...
Even doing this, I've screwed up a few by laying the bushings in the wrong order or switching the blank ends on the mandrel.. turning it around as I put it on.... I've always turned pens from left to right, the finial end nearest the headstock... so the pens requiring a tenon or the wood cut away for the centerband is mostly my downfall... if and when I reverse the blank, I wind up cutting the wrong end for the tenon. That blank is then lost. :redface:

 

[spiritwoodturner]

Look Greg, like Brian said, we've all wrecked pen kits, and anyone that says they never have is lying. One thing I'd say about bushings, at least with Craft Supply kits, is they give you the diameter of the bushing and where it goes in their instructions. A vital tool you're going to need, and it sounds like you don't have it, is a fraction display caliper. Get the kind that converts from inches, millimeters, and decimals. You can't do turning in general for long without one.

Aside from that, turn the frustrations into learning and keep moving forward. I'm learning castings now, and it's trial and error, with MANY mistakes along the way. That's the main reason I decided long ago turning was for me, you can only get bored or stagnant if you want to.

Keep swingin',

Dale

 

[bitshird]

Greg, when I was turning in my shop, I kept a notebook with all the pen kit instructions with it. Since I've always assembled my pens at my office desk, I have them on my computer, after about 300 pens, I still use one or the other on nearly every thing, by the way, woodnwhimsies cigar bushing set is or was pretty simple that were only 3 pieces instead of 4 separate bushings, since I made my between center bushings, I'm always using calipers any way , best investment you can make is a set of dial calipers, Harbor freight has them both Dial and Digital for about 20.00 they will save you a lot of misteaks:biggrin:

 

[jttheclockman]

I started out with just using bushings but have since reached for the calipers and it does make a difference. I was doing a sierra Vista just yesterday and I did not realize there are two different sized bushings for that one also. You gotta love these pen companies.

 

[GouletPens]

If you want to be foolproof, go for the WS2, Sierra, or Gatsby (all the same thing). There are only 2 bushings and they're exactly the same. You can't screw it up!!! Plus it only uses half a blank, which saves you time and money on acrylic.:wink:

 

[Greg O'Sherwood]

Thanks to all of you - except maybe the jerk who thinks he's perfect.:biggrin: kidding...

I do have calipers (and know how to use them), but the WPP instructions don't have the dimensions for the bushings listed. Perhaps I'll get a set of Woodcrafts instructions and use them for these.

I also started a notebook when I first realized that not every company sends their instructions in every kit. I even have pics of some sample pens of each type with the instructions. I do read the instructions and lay out the parts and bushings ahead of time. I do think the WPP instructions could be slightly less vague. Perhaps only newbs like me have trouble with them...

Anyway, like I said, I've ordered more and I'll look into buying parts as well.

Thanks again,
Gregory of KeepOnTurnin Forest

 

[jkeithrussell]

Don't feel bad. There are those of us who are severely "Cigar Challenged". I still haven't made a Cigar that looks "right", and I gave up. Many here rcommend it as a beginners pen and I think they're nuts. 8>)

When making the plunge away from SlimLines, I would suggest buying several sets of brass tubes, Woodcraft has them by the package, and practice making a few pen barrels before putting a pen together. Doing several practice barrels takes the pressure off.

Russ,
I studied your website for weeks before I started turning pens. I find it impossible to believe that there is any pen that would give you even the slightest bit of trouble. Some people just don't like the look/feel of the cigar pen, and perhaps you are one of them. I love the cigar pen -- mostly because of the heft and the solid double twist mechanism.

Greg,
I certainly didn't mean to sound like I'm the master of the cigar pen (or any other pen). For all of the stepped bushings that have different diameters, I sketched them on a note pad and tacked them to the peg board behind my lathe. Serves as a very simple visual reminder of the sequence of the bushings. Measure once, jot it down, problem solved.

 

[Seer]

Boy was this thread addictive tried my first leopard wood everything looking good until I put the tip in almost seated and it decides to go its own way.

 

[spiritwoodturner]

I guess this is reason 436 I prefer Craft Supplies. Just went out to my shop, and neither Berea or Penn State give any dimensions to bushings in their instructions. Craft Supplies does, to my knowledge on every kit they sell. How hard do you think that could be? In 10minutes, with a fractional caliper, I could measure the diameter of every kit both of them sell, and add that to the instructions. Some 2 piece kits have 4 different sized bushings!!! That can get a little iffy looking at a picture and trying to figure out which is the second smallest bushing!

I reckon that's why, as time's gone by, I probably buy 95% of my stuff in general from CSUSA. I just got an order from them Friday, and as part of it I asked for 2 transmissions that I had sanded short. They were happy to send the 2, and sent 2 whole cigar kits to boot! I was clear, I was the one that sanded them too short and just wanted a few replacements. That wasn't enough for them, they must have thought I was unhappy and sent me 2 new kits. Try that with the other 2, or any independent for that matter.

Dale

 

[Greg O'Sherwood]

Dale,
thanks for relating your experience.

I have ordered from CSUSA and was extremely happy with their service. I like that they label everything clearly - it makes things easy on us newbs. I'm sure it isn't a big deal for those who have made hundreds of kits, but for me, it is appreciated.

As soon as I get one of the Samoan (Cigar) kits done correctly, I will number the bushings and measure them. I'll add the measurements to the instructions that I have in my notebook, and that'll be the end of my difficulty - for this kit, at least...

I am also creating an excel sheet that has every measurement for every piece for every kit I make. Yeah, it'll be a while in the making, but I am surprised that it hasn't been done yet. I have posted threads asking if anyone has this, but I received no affirmative responses.

Thanks again!

Gregory of GettingThereOnePloddingStepAtATime Forest

 

[lpierce65]

I was turning a blank today and realized the center bushing did not look correct it was the one with the expandable ring to help with the tenon for the designer pen. Well, I think I had it backwards anyway the set screw apparently flew off and is somewhere in lower orbit around the moon. both blanks screwed up... and to start over..This after I got the shop warmed up with the gas heater

Been There Done That .. welcome to the club

Larry Pierce

 

[TowMater]

Greg,

Don't measure the bushings, measure the fittings of the pen pieces you will be mating up to. Do I need to drop by for another visit?

 

[Greg O'Sherwood]

Greg,

Don't measure the bushings, measure the fittings of the pen pieces you will be mating up to. Do I need to drop by for another visit?

Sage advice, Todd. Thanks again.
I think I can get a handle on it. Progress would be much better if i had more than 2 hours a week at the lathe...

My next lesson will be in bowl turning. I think Lester is going to drop by on sunday the 8th (not definite yet) to give me some guidance. If you want to drop by, let me know.

I've gotta source some blanks for bowls...

Gregory of SpinningSlowlyButSpinningNonetheless Forest

 

[timberview4]

I am new to pen turning as well. I have gotten into the habit of using my calipers to measure the bushing diameters and matching to the pen hardware to ensure I have them oriented correctly.

This saved me from ruining a pen this past weekend. I picked up a Wall Street "II" Tropical Series for my Father-in-Law during a visit to Woodcraft. I already had bushings for the WSII and the Sierra (same I believe). All was good, I thought. Thankfully I measured the bushings and the hardware and found the bushing were too small. After looking in the WC catalog and website, the Tropical Series is called a Wall Street II, but calls for Wall Street III bushings??? Why don't they just call it what it is?

Anyway, if I didn't measure and just turned to the bushings diameter, I would have turned the blank down to far. I used the bushings I had and checked the diameter of the blank with the calipers as I got close.