Bushings-like buying a mattress

[jbg230]

It's hard to compare mattresses from one store to another since, even though it may be the same mattress from one to store to another, the model numbers and names differ. It seems that way with pen kit bushings also. Sure, one vendor may name their pen differently than another, but at least you can tell the pens are the same, just by looking at them. But if the item numbers of the bushings are different from one vendor to another, how do you know if you need to buy another set of bushings since you may already own them under a different item #. One set of bushings may be the same for a few different pen kits.

The tables that Wayne authored in the Reference section are fantastic, but it still takes a lot of cross referencing to figure out if you already have a set of bushings for a new kit you want to get. Is there any reference table that shows this kind of overlap?

An example is Woodturningz Eclipse pen kit. The required bushings are listed as item # PKCPEXPRBU. I think this is the same set of bushings for the PSI Falcon pen AND the .30 Cal bullet pen. PSI lists this item # as PKCP3000BU.

Have I just realized the madness of pen turning parts? This is worse than plumbing parts.

Oh, and btw, Wayne's chart lists the Eclipse pen bushing as having an inner diameter of 0.345 and the Woodturningz instruction sheet for this pen shows the diagram of the bushing as 0.344.

What's worse is that Woodturningz states that their Eclipse bushings are the same for their .30 cal bullet pen too, yet the Woodturningz .30 cal bullet instruction sheet shows the same PKCPEXPRBU bushing set with an inner diameter 0.342! The outer diameter is also off 0.001 compared to the Eclipse.

I own PSI's Falcon/.30 cal bushings. If it truly is 0.001" off as compared to the Woodturningz bushings, would it matter?

 

[thewishman]

I own PSI's Falcon/.30 cal bushings. If it truly is 0.001" off as compared to the Woodturningz bushings, would it matter?

No.

 

[jttheclockman]

What I highly suggest you do, if you are going to turn with stock bushings then buy the bushings with every new kit you get. This is the least expensive part of pen turning and make sure you have a good system to mark them for the kits you bought them and a good system of storing them. It is the easiest thing to do. I have found long ago that I am not into all these exotic pen kits with all this fancy designs. They are all built off the same platform and to me are not worth the investment. You will eventually settle down to a few kits when you get done experimenting.

You can then make up your own list of kits that use bushings of the same size. But they wear out so fast so as I said just as well to buy new for each new kit. Now if you learn to turn between centers and use a set of calipers then all those bushings go away. Good luck in your venture and welcome to pen turning. So see very easy to read the charts.

 

[thewishman]

I have collected a lot of bushings over the years. I find that if I have a new pen style I want to try, I find bushings that fits into the tube and use them to get relatively close to the finish diameter. When I have removed as much as I can of the blank diameter, and the bushings can't help anymore, I put the pen barrel directly on my live and dead center and finish turning it, using calipers to get to the right dimensions. (I like to hog off as much material as I can quickly, the bushings help hold the blank more securely, so I can move to the next step.)

Spending money on every possible bushing takes away from the cash to buy blanks or kits.

If you get an order for a bunch of one style, or you find a great kit and you want to make a lot of that style, spring for some really good bushings. Here's a post I made earlier tonight:

The bushings that Brian Nikitas (http://www.penturners.org/forum/member.php?u=9301)makes) are top quality tool steel and can last hundreds of pens - if you're careful. His website:

Store - Nikitas Woodworks

 

[randyrls]

Jake; I will comment. The bushings *MAY* be identical, it is difficult to measure down to .001" and most calipers only measure to that resolution. Bushings also have a tolerance and may differ by as much as .001". Tolerance may be stated as +.002", -.000"

Never trust bushings for final sizing of the barrel. Put a caliper on the fitting and turn the finished barrel to that dimension. Take into account the thickness of the finish you apply.
This caliper is a good one. The battery lasts a long time and it is accurate.

 

[Ted iin Michigan]

Maybe

I'm jumping in here and may "throw gasoline on the fire". If so, my apologies in advance.

I'm thinking a lot depends on the pen you are crafting. I've been doing this for a while and, as noted above, I've got a number of pens that are my "go to" favorites (best sellers, etc). And depending on the pen (here it comes) it may or may not be important to turn and finish to the bushing.

Couple examples: the PSI Gatsby has raised rings where the components are pressed into the tube. This allows me some leeway in final sizing. On the other hand, the PSI Vertex (my personal favorite) requires the fit to be spot on to be acceptable (by me).

Make sense?

 

[BeeAMaker]

YOUR NOT ALONE!

I am just starting out and I am already daunted by the number of different bushings. Being an EE I am use to standards, one would think there would be 4 or 5 types of bushings and the pens fashioned around those standards. I was looking into TBC even before I turned my first pen.

 

[edstreet]

The bushing industry is more equal to the hook and bait ploy. The goal of the company is to not really care about how or even if you sell the finished pen but instead to sell you the pen maker as much goods as possible. In order for them to do just that the dimensions must be different. Therefore not compatible with most others. Then they add a drill bit to be mix and sell them as a package deal to you. Toss in a little discount and you are caught hook, line and sinker. All of this is so one greedy company can make their 5+ million a year income.

 

[socdad]

The bushing industry is more equal to the hook and bait ploy. The goal of the company is to not really care about how or even if you sell the finished pen but instead to sell you the pen maker as much goods as possible. In order for them to do just that the dimensions must be different. Therefore not compatible with most others. Then they add a drill bit to be mix and sell them as a package deal to you. Toss in a little discount and you are caught hook, line and sinker. All of this is so one greedy company can make their 5+ million a year income.

The reason "greedy" companies are in business is to make money. I do not know when profit became a dirty word …

 

[brownsfn2]

There is a bushing industry?

I am with Chris though. I just use bushings to get close and then turn between centers for the final dimensions. As long as the fit with the bushing in the tube is good then I like them.

 

[Chasper]

It has been my repeated experience that the suppliers of pen products have a common interest in helping pen makers be more successful, as opposed to simply trying to get us to buy more stuff to enrich themselves. When you have questions about interchangeable bushings and cannot find answers, there is a good chance that your suppliers can help you out.

 

[BeeAMaker]

Has anyone experimented with Delrin bushings? Might be a cheaper "1 or 2 time use" solution. However, metal is better in the land fill than Delrin.

 

[jttheclockman]

Has anyone experimented with Delrin bushings? Might be a cheaper "1 or 2 time use" solution. However, metal is better in the land fill than Delrin.

Many many threads on this subject for finishing with them too. Not so good for turning to size. When turning and using bushings it is a must to be centered. Not so much with finishing.

 

[leehljp]

Wow Chris - Store - "Nikitas Woodworks" Those looks just like JohnnyCNC's bushings of 2007 or so. Thanks for that.
http://www.penturners.org/forum/member.php?u=9301)makes

Randy hit the nail on the head. Years ago, I started measuring bushings as I got them. I would order two or three sets at a time because I lived overseas and I couldn't just order some and get them in a day or two. Measured them and often .001 or .002 off on the individual bushings. That is why Johnnycnc jumped into making them. There were bushings in which the hole for the mandrel were drilled off center by .003 or so. You could eyeball it an tell that it was off center. Often out of two sets of bushings, I would get one good set.

Johnnycnc's bushings are much like what Nikita's bushings look like - made for Between Centers turning, not for mandrels. One thing you could tell quickly about Johnny's (and probably Nikita's) from big company's bushings - when you had bushings in both ends of a tube, removing one of Johnny's would result in a "plop" sound. It created a vacuum and it had a smooth tight fit. Loose fitting commercial ones result in loose tolerances on a pen that can be felt easily.

Now to the OP (Original Post) if you are looking for perfection, you won't find it. There will be .001 and even .002 differences in commercial bushings made for the same pen. Some bushings are made for certain tubes but not the pen diameter size. For me, it would not matter as I don't determine the size by the diameter of the large size of the bushings. If you are into .001 differences, begin using the a good set of calipers for determining the sizes. With calipers, you can use a set of bushings that were not made for your pen if it fits well into the tube. Just use the calipers for determining the blank's end diameters when you turn.

 

[jbg230]

Ok then! Just learned a whole lot. Thanks for all the input. I'm now looking to graduate to turning between centers. More tools- more excuses to make up for the wife.
Thank you though- it's good hearing from and learning from the "experts".

 

[thewishman]

Wow Chris - Store - "Nikitas Woodworks" Those looks just like JohnnyCNC's bushings of 2007 or so. Thanks for that.
http://www.penturners.org/forum/member.php?u=9301)makes

That is why Johnnycnc jumped into making them. There were bushings in which the hole for the mandrel were drilled off center by .003 or so. You could eyeball it an tell that it was off center. Often out of two sets of bushings, I would get one good set.

Johnnycnc's bushings are much like what Nikita's bushings look like - made for Between Centers turning, not for mandrels. One thing you could tell quickly about Johnny's (and probably Nikita's) from big company's bushings - when you had bushings in both ends of a tube, removing one of Johnny's would result in a "plop" sound. It created a vacuum and it had a smooth tight fit.

I have turned hundreds of Sierra Vista pen barrels with JohnnyCNC bushings - and they still make a "plop" sound when taking them off the barrels. Brian Nikitas are just as good. And for an extra fee, he can make them to your specifications. I like keyrings to be slightly larger in diameter than the mfg. says they should be, got custom bushings and I can make them the way I want.