Boiling Ebony

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Randy_

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A question was asked over at Yahoo and no one ever came up with a full answer. The basic concern was about whether boiling ebony blanks would reduce or eliminate the cracking problem. Someone suggested that the blanks be turned without gluing in the tubes, removing the tubes and letting the blanks dry some more. It was pointed out that the turned blanks would probably shrink a bit and the holes would have to be redrilled or, at least, reamed out a bit....pretty tough to do with the paper thin turned barrels.

I have no experience in this aspect of pencrafting; but the following occurred to me and was posted at Yahoo....

Just thinking out loud since I have exactly zero experience in this
area. A blank that has been drilled and turned; but not glued is
going to be relatively fragile. What about drilling the blanks and
then letting them sit or boil them or microwave them. That way, they
could dry from the inside and the outside and could probably be
redrilled if necessary without such a great risk of ruining them??

I never got any response so thought I would see if anyone here has an opinion. Is the above a good...or bad...idea and has anyone ever tried anything similar? Thanks.
 
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Daniel

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Randy,
to my thinking the turn and let it set is a technique borrowed from bowl turning practices. turn the bowl to rough diameter while the wood is green (or wet) then let it set and dry to finally turn to shape, leaving enough material when it is still green to correct for any warping as it dries. the idea is that they will turn the bowl down to about an inch wall thickness when the final bowl will have a quarter of an inch wall thickness. so this does not exactly translate well when applied to the demensions of a pen. we don't even start with an inch of material. One variation of this idea I have seen is to cut and drill the blank then let it dry a while longer. redrill just to insure that the hole is still round etc. then turn. If you do want to turn a blank round to loose some material, I would say you can but keeping in mind you will be drilling it again later. so round like 3/4 inch or so not down to the paper thin final demensions. still you would be weakening the blank being hollow and all. I like the drill only idea myself.
 

DCBluesman

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The cracking that happens down the road in certain woods such as ebony and snakewood is not from the normal drying process, therefore drying them artificially in a microwave will not improve the results. These particular woods (there are others) are extremely dense with tight grains and lots of oils. This is typically where the cracking problems originate.

In a tropical or sub-tropical climate, the variance of temperature and humidity is not nearly as great as it is in the US. Even the normal temperature changes in the native climate do not occur as rapidly as it does in the US, as we move from a 90 degree outside temperature immediately to a 65 degree air conditioned restaurant or as we move from a 32 degree cold day to our homes, snugly heated to 70 degrees.

These dramatic temperature changes (and the accompanying humidity changes) impact both the elasticity of the wood fiber and the viscosity of the oil contained within. In thin layers, there is insufficient movement available in the fibers and grain to allow for these circumstances without splitting. That's not to say that all ebony is doomed to split, just that the probability is much higher than for, say, maple.

Boiling these woods is sometimes used in hopes of reducing the oil content of the wood, thereby reducing the effect of it's change in viscosity. While it is possible to remove a significant amount of the oil in this manner, the boiling water has the effect of over-drying the grain as well as damaging the fibers.

A search of the internet will raise this question many times, but without any single method of consistently overcoming the drawback to using these woods. Sometimes the best solution is that there is no best solution...for now. That being said, there's not reason not to experiment. You may be the one to "crack the code".

FYI, I have both an ebony pen and a snakewood pen that have not cracked at all in over six months. Clearly the luck of the draw.
 

ctEaglesc

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One of my first pens was an ebony euro style.
I wanted to make a Mont Blanc look alike out of ebony.
Kind of out do the Frou frou croud.
The pen turned out great until I tried (in my inexperience) to put a CA/Blo finish on it.
The rest of the story is not pretty.
Some day I will make that pen again and proudly diplay it to the status seekers.
I took my time turning it and up until a couple of weeks ago it sat in one of my "get back boxes."

It was out of ebony and may be if it had lived it may have cracked or maybe not.We'll never know.
 

pipemaker

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Very interesting.
Are there any other woods that are prone to cracking?
Is this tendency common in all oily woods like Cocobolo or just certain ones?
Would stabilizing these woods help?

Thanks,
Mike
 

rtgleck

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Has anyone asked a Pool cue maker. They often use ebony and rarley seem them crack though they have a slightly larger area to deal with?
 

Fred in NC

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I have done several pens in ebony. None cracked <b>so far</b>.

1. I don't turn too thin, especially at the ends.

2. I don't drill too tight. Leave space for the glue.

3. I don't use any <b>heat</b> producing glue.

4. I drill blanks ahead of time, and ream if necessary.

5. I wait after turning before I put on the finish.

6. I don't use any <b>heat</b> producing finishes.

7. I make sure there is enough room for the tip and finial. I ream with a "D" drill bit to make sure. Expanding the tube can crack the barrel. Push the parts in <b>GENTLY</b> and straight. A small drop of glue INSIDE the tube will hold the parts. (Putting the glue on the metal part squeezes it OUT, which is not pretty ...)

And finally I keep the pen in my inventory for a few weeks, <b>in case I goofed it somewhere ....</b>
 

DCBluesman

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Mike--ebony and snakewood seem to be the worst. I've not heard of problems with anything in the rosewood family, like cocobolo. As for stabilizing ebony or snakewood, I'd love to hear if anyone has tried. I have a feeling not. The density would make it awfully difficult to get the resin to penetrate. I've corresponded with a couple of members of the Pen Makers Guild and they don't seem to have an answer for these two woods either...at least not one they'd bet their reputations on.
 

DCBluesman

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Originally posted by Fred in NC
And finally I keep the pen in my inventory for a few weeks, <b>in case I goofed it somewhere ....</b>
Thanks for the tips, Fred. I think I'll try these on some snakewood I've been hesitant to use!
 

Gary

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Fred's techniques are pretty much what I follow, and I haven't had problems with the cracking. But then, I've worked mostly with Mun Ebony. The secret seems to be in taking it very slow. Allow extra time and clearance for all steps. Patience...patience...!
 

wdcav1952

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Originally posted by DCBluesman
<br />Mike--ebony and snakewood seem to be the worst. I've not heard of problems with anything in the rosewood family, like cocobolo. As for stabilizing ebony or snakewood, I'd love to hear if anyone has tried. I have a feeling not. The density would make it awfully difficult to get the resin to penetrate. I've corresponded with a couple of members of the Pen Makers Guild and they don't seem to have an answer for these two woods either...at least not one they'd bet their reputations on.

Lou,
Rich K reported some time ago that he tried stabilization with snakewood with very poor results. I don't remember hearing anything about stabilization of ebony, most say try another black wood if you have cracking problems.
 

BigRob777

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Hi all,
I know this is an old subject, but it might still help someone. I am still looking to find out how to keep drying wood to curl, other than cutting them oversized. That said, here is my unoriginal comment on the problem.

Not that I am coming from a position of experience, but I read on this forum that someone uses a more elastic glue, after drilling slightly larger holes. This allows the tube to expand without as much pressure on the wood. It sounds logical to me, but I don't have the experience to confirm it. Sorry for the steal (whomever wrote it). I'd give him or her the credit, but I just don't remember who wrote it. Suffice it to say, that it did not come from me.
 

alamocdc

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I've not tried Ebony, or Snakewood yet, but I have turned two Ipe pens. Both about three months ago. One is still doing well, but I noticed a fine check at the nib end of the cigar last week. I took it to Texas with me and unfortunately left it in my suitcase in the car for several hours and I think the heat got to it.
 

wayneis

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Pink Ivory is another culprit for cracking. I took about thirty pens to Provo with me of assorted woods and the only one that gave me a problem was a Pink Ivory Legero. I was pretty mad as I enspected each pen as I packed them and it was perfect when I left. I'm thinking that the altitude changes did that one in. I had made that one about six months ago and it was so nice, it was one of the very few curly pink ivory blanks that I've found.

So if you do make one of these culprits then I would suggest that you not send it by air if possible.

Wayne
 
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Mudder

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Originally posted by BigRob777
<br />Not that I am coming from a position of experience, but I read on this forum that someone uses a more elastic glue, after drilling slightly larger holes. This allows the tube to expand without as much pressure on the wood. It sounds logical to me, but I don't have the experience to confirm it. Sorry for the steal (whomever wrote it). I'd give him or her the credit, but I just don't remember who wrote it. Suffice it to say, that it did not come from me.

Not sure if he is the first but I first saw it on Russ Fairfield's site.

http://www.woodturnerruss.com/Pen23.html

My limited experience parallels what Russ has said. Especially on a slimline. Since I switched to a larger drill and poly glue both blowouts and cracked pens have virtually been eleminated. I would suggest to those who have not seen Russ's site to take a half hour or so to go through his pen pages and really read and think about the information that is offered to you. The man speaks from many years of experience and has not steered me wrong yet. When I was first thinking of penturning I stumbled upon Russ's site and he gave me the confidence and guidance to make a few without any problems at all.

Sorry for the hijack and thank you Russ.
 

Old Griz

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I am not sure how it would work on snakewood... but I did a soapstone pen that developed pressure cracks when I put it together, even though I releived the tubes a bit...
I was discussing that with BillB and he said that on material like that he drills a bit oversize and uses silicone caulk to but the tube in... of course you need to let it dry a couple of days, but he said that it takes up the pressure of pressing the parts into the tubes..
I may try that on my next soapstone piece.... I love the way they look, but only give them as a special gift.. I won't sell them because if the customer drops it... it is toast.. crumbled up pieces of toast at that....
AND we all know that even if you warn the customer, write it down so they don't forget and admonish them 25 times before they leave you, they will come back after dropping the pen onto a concrete floor and complain it broke.... I DON'T NEED THAT.. [:p]
 
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