Blemishes on plating - how picky are you?

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Munsterlander

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I recently got a whole bunch of kits from a supplier (with whom I've been quite happy before) and probably half or slightly more than half had problems ranging from scratches to chipped areas to slight indentations in the visible hardware. (I don't want to say who - not interested in trashing anyone.)

From my perspective I just can't go sell something for $50-100 when it's got obvious defects in the plating - but perhaps I'm being too picky?

I would like to know how particular some of the more experienced folks are - if you have small nicks in the plating (say 1/32 to 1/16") or an identation/"wave", do you automatically send it back?

Thanks
 
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Nick

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Send them back, you could perhaps give them a call first to see how they want to handle the problem. I had that problem only once and they took care of it very quickly.
 

Munsterlander

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I should have said that I have sent some back and actually every seller I've purchased from has been very quick to fix problems. I was really trying to get a better feel for what is reasonable to expect/accept - I'll interpret your reply as "don't accept imperfections"...
 

Nick

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Blemishes

That is correct, accept no imperfections, I think your customers would give the item back to you and there goes your reputation.

I should have said that I have sent some back and actually every seller I've purchased from has been very quick to fix problems. I was really trying to get a better feel for what is reasonable to expect/accept - I'll interpret your reply as "don't accept imperfections"...
 

ed4copies

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I have NEVER sent ANYTHING back to a supplier for replacement.

However, they started using those stupid little bags because the pieces were scratching each other, so obviously quite a few people WERE sending them back.

To me the question revolves around cost. Were they slimlines that you bought for $2 each or Emperors that cost you $50.?

IF you are making a pen you hope to sell for $50, I would guess they are at least a $12 kit (based on the 3x "rule" that seems "standard"). In this price range, if half were bad, yes, I WOULD contact the supplier.

This is how I would handle it, you are WELCOME to do it differently!!!
 

marcruby

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I always have room to be surprisd. I figure NOT sending faulty pens back is doing everyone a disservice - customers, dealers, manufacturers, other penmakers and, of course, me. Now if it's one cigar out of a couple dozen I may let it slip and put it in the 'stocking stuffer' bowl, but I'll still let the dealer know. I've bought a quantity of pens before with a consistent manufacturing defect. And had a trustworthy dealer tell me I was only the first or second to complain. When they check their stock and find that all the pen kits of that type are defective its a source of irritation for all.

I want people to think 'zero defects' when they get a pen of mine, not 'what the heck, it was cheap.'

Marc
 
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jttheclockman

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I have NEVER sent ANYTHING back to a supplier for replacement.!

Why do I not believe that ????

My opinion is it does not matter if it is a $2 kit or a $50 kit. You paid full price for a defective kit. Now if they offer you that kit for half price due to imperfections then it would be your choice. But for any company to not stand good for defective or imperfect kits is not a company I want to deal with and being this is a very competative market and mant distrubitors out there then I am sure it will get resolved. Never settle for second best especially if you are paying best prices. Like it was said you hurt all. Hope you work things out and the place you bought them does the right thing and also improves its quailty control.
 

ed4copies

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Why do I not believe that ????

My opinion is it does not matter if it is a $2 kit or a $50 kit. You paid full price for a defective kit. Now if they offer you that kit for half price due to imperfections then it would be your choice. But for any company to not stand good for defective or imperfect kits is not a company I want to deal with and being this is a very competative market and mant distrubitors out there then I am sure it will get resolved. Never settle for second best especially if you are paying best prices. Like it was said you hurt all. Hope you work things out and the place you bought them does the right thing and also improves its quailty control.

I don't know why. Nearly always, I have purchased over 100 kits at a time. Sometimes a couple are not perfect. Usually, I figure I will "blow up" a kit or two and need extra parts. AND, I suspect I would have to package up the "bad" ones, then send them off - paying freight. This also means a trip to the post office. TO ME, my time is valuable. Fooling around with this is just NOT worth MY time.

You are entitled to do as you wish, unless it involves questioning my credibility.:curse::curse::curse::curse::curse:
 

sbell111

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Thanks for this thread. It reminded me to call CSUSA about the problems I've had recently with two completely different JR Gent kits.

That being said, some of the stuff (such as pen mills) we have bought in the past is from a deep discounter. When I place an order with them, I know that I will be tossing a few items from each order in the trash. I factor that into the cost and make the purchase if it is still in my best financial interest.
 

sbell111

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... AND, I suspect I would have to package up the "bad" ones, then send them off - paying freight. This also means a trip to the post office. TO ME, my time is valuable. Fooling around with this is just NOT worth MY time.
It's been my experience that most suppliers are aware of the fact that bad parts will be sent out on occasion and will not require that bad stuff to be shipped back. Sometimes, I have been asked to take a digital pic of the bad item, but I have never been asked to actually send the bad pan part back.

That being said, your point of it not being worth your time is a good one. Generally, I think that I am most likely to complain if the part went to a 'premium' kit and I didn't have a replacement in my spare parts box. Of course, this generally frees those suppliers of cheaper kits from my wrathe, which is ironic since those kits are much more likely to have a problem.
 

jttheclockman

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I don't know why. Nearly always, I have purchased over 100 kits at a time. Sometimes a couple are not perfect. Usually, I figure I will "blow up" a kit or two and need extra parts. AND, I suspect I would have to package up the "bad" ones, then send them off - paying freight. This also means a trip to the post office. TO ME, my time is valuable. Fooling around with this is just NOT worth MY time.

You are entitled to do as you wish, unless it involves questioning my credibility.:curse::curse::curse::curse::curse:

Ed I am not questioning your credability at all I just made a statement that in your lifetime you never sent anything back???? You must be a very lucky person.

Ed I guess that is your way of thinking but I have mine. I do not buy hundreds of kits but I do buy hundreds of clock inserts and even if one does not work it either gets sent back or i let them know and usually they just send a new one. But to do nothing, not me. My time is valuable also.
 

ed4copies

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John,

You have your way, I have mine. But if I say something, you can take it to the bank. THAT is MY way. Normally, I choose my words pretty carefully.

No harm, no blood, no foul.
 

Rudy Vey

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In regards to the plating I never had an issue with the two main suppliers: CSUSA and Berea. I had some issues with the poor quality of some kits I got in a group buy from a different supplier.
I had a big issue once with CSUSA with Gent Jr - Thread issue - some 3 years or so ago. But they they replaced the kits and the use BEB blanks without a problem.
 

Wildman

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1st place to air your concerns/problems with pen kits is with that supplier!

Doesn't matter what items cost, if its not fit for intended purpose, should be offered an apology, replacement, or money back. If those things don't happen then you should out that supplier.

Can understand supplier's end up with quality issues with pen kits once in awhile. They should be given the opportunity to make it right. If they choose not to resolve the issue by all means let the world know.

That won't happen unless you tell them. Just remember squeaky wheel gets the grease!
 

Misterturner

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DEFECTIVE PLATING issues are now the norm!

I've been finding more and more problems with plating in the last few months. Could this be due to the escalating cost of metals? Are the manufacturers applying less and less? I have been having the same lousy experience with a number of vendors, but will highlight just two, what I consider to be the WORST offenders (or least interested in addressing THEIR problem). I say THEIR problem because I shouldn't have to be the one performing QUALITY CONTROL for them - they have that responsibility, but aren't doing it.

PENN STATE: I can no longer order any of the Executive 24kt Gold kits from Penn State - EVERY LAST ONE in the last two orders was poorly plated - pitted, scratched appearance, marks like acid etching on the surface, and in one case plating on a nib that was so bad that you could see the underlying metal. These are not trivial problems - these are defective products that you cannot make pens with and hope to sell later! Penn State is very good about returning your money, but not the cost of return shipping and, of course, the time lost inspecting their kits is lost time/productivity.

I feel that this issue is worth addressing in this forum as Company's like Penn State aren't doing much about the problem. The paperwork for the last order that I returned indicated that they put the defective kits that I returned right back into the pile to go out to the next unlucky person that happens to order these kits! That's negligence. I'm not surprised though, last summer I received replacement parts that Penn State later admitted were taken out of their reject pile and accidentally sent to me.

I have also had problems with their Sculptured kits - plating that was so poor that they shouldn't be sold at any price.

Recently, Penn State invited me to review both of their Executive pen kits, which I gladly did. They posted the review I wrote on the Rhodium Executive kit since it was glowing (they are nearly 100% flawless every time and are great looking kits), but chose not to post the review I provided on the 24 kt gold kits. Both reviews were HONESTLY written, and accurate. Penn State has the right to post whatever they like, but I think it says a lot about their integrity to post only positive reviews and once again ignore THEIR PROBLEM. Nice!

WOODCRAFT: I have recently purchased a number of gunmetal and chrome plated Wall Street II (Sierra) kits from Woodcraft and tonight received an order of 10 Satin w/Chrome Wall Street II kits (Elegant Sierra's) and one each of a Ti and Plat and Ti and Gold kit (also both the equivalent of an Elegant Sierra). EVERY ONE of the gunmetal plated kits, EVERY ONE of the Satin w/Chrome kits, AND the 1 Ti and Plat kit had defective plating!

The plating was so poorly applied that if you rotated the nibs in your hand you see striping down the length of the nib. In other areas, you could see chemical stain marks. Woodcraft has kindly replaced these kits in the past, but tonight I decided to have them just refund my money. By the way, the Titanium and Platinum kit is more than $15.00 - absolutely NOT worth it. However, I was told that WOODCRAFT is not aware of any other problems?? I find that hard to believe.

I think that the sellers of these kits are perhaps/minimally checking to see that all the parts are present in the kits (as it is very rare that I find a kit that is missing a part), but aren't bothering to check the quality of the plating and certainly are not checking the returned items with any care or we wouldn't be seeing these problems on a recurring basis.

I'd really like to know where I can purchase similar kits to these and NOT have to worry about how many are going to be bad. I'd rather spend my time in front of the lathe!
 

hunter-27

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I don't know why. Nearly always, I have purchased over 100 kits at a time. Sometimes a couple are not perfect. Usually, I figure I will "blow up" a kit or two and need extra parts. AND, I suspect I would have to package up the "bad" ones, then send them off - paying freight. This also means a trip to the post office. TO ME, my time is valuable. Fooling around with this is just NOT worth MY time.

You are entitled to do as you wish, unless it involves questioning my credibility.:curse::curse::curse::curse::curse:
Your time seems to valuable for a few things it seems. :wink:
 
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jttheclockman

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Being I do not buy from PSI or Woodcraft who seems to have now joined in on the market not only for more upscale pen kits and laser kits, I can not vouch for their quality control. But if this lack of quality control is now going to get into their upscale kits then there needs to be some sort of notice sent to them stating that penturners everywhere will not stand for this and it needs to be adressed. We have a huge audience here and if some sort of petition or letter is drawn up I will gladly sign it on principle.

These suppliers do not want to see us sending back defective kits any more than we want to. I know in a perfect world you do not have this but if demand increases and shortcuts are taken these things will happen and hopefully it does not escalate. Remember these companies are all in competion for your dollar. My 2 cents has been put into the jar.
 

bitshird

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If I pay over 4.00 for a kit, I expect it to be right, if not, I will either not buy any more of that kit, and a good chance I won't buy from that supplier.
 

rjwolfe3

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Penn State and Woodcraft are not the only suppliers with plating problems. I'm beginning to realize that if a supplier has a kit cheaper then everyone else then there is probably a good reason for it. And I am not talking about the cheap platings but rather the Black and Gold Ti and Rhodium/Platinum.
 

winpooh498

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Do you realise that Woodcraft is a distributor for Berea? So if you are having problems with the kits purchased at Woodcraft and Woodcraft doesn't want to make it right. Contact Berea.
 

Munsterlander

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I have to say I'm with Jason in the frustration department (I am, after all, the one who started this thread). I still don't want to go after the suppliers with whom I have the most problems publicly because for a while at least I still need to do business with them and work through the problems that come up - but there are way, way too many. (And, yes, I understand the best solution is to stop doing business there, and that's normally what I would do - in one particular case, though, I'm committed to a particular pen style going to extended family members as a memorial gift and it's only available from one supplier.)

There are exceptions where quality is pretty consistent (for me that's CSUSA and select models from PSI, but only on the high end platings - I won't order a 24k kit from anyone anymore), but I have to say overall it leaves me pretty disillusioned. As I mentioned to Jason, I think long-term I'm headed toward one of 2 options:

1) closed-end pens where kit parts are minimized - e.g., Kaspar's Curly Bubinga fountain pen over in Show Off Your Pens today, or Chriselle's Urushi - if I had the ability to make pens like that (some day) that would be the end of most kits for me. (that really is stunning work, guys.)

2) Totally kit-less like Butch et al. Then there's obviously noone to blame but me for any problems.

I'm just tired of figuratively holding my breath every time I make an order and then go through the kits to find the problems, and then have to spend my time (which translated to my $) to get it resolved. To me there's no valid excuse for it - as Jason said, quality control is the supplier's responsibility not mine.
 

Misterturner

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Today, I received an order of kits from a new supplier (to me) and 11 out of the 12 kits were defective (scratched and pitted plated surfaces). The vendor is going to send out replacements and I am to return the damaged goods - there is NO WAY that the replacements are going to be markedly improved UNLESS they come from a different lot (from the future or from early last year)!

Its nice that vendors are willing to address these problems (by exchanging or refunding), but its not going to solve the real problem until they start caring enough to inform their manufacturers- and right now they don't seem to care. I think they expect there to be a certain amount of problems and that WE will identify them FOR THEM and somehow they've already accounted for it in their price (or know that they can send back as many as they have to)??

I really don't have the time or patience to be looking through all these bags, and determining which of the kits I can settle for and finding that the majority have to go back. And its nothing short of offensive to report as many defective kits as I've been receiving and then finding that the replacements are no better.
 
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