Between centers???

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follow3

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Hello All,

I am thinking of trying the mandrel-less method with some of johnnycnc's products.

2 Questions:

1. Is there a center bushing so that you can turn the cap and the nib end at the same time, or do you have to turn one half at a time?

2. Does this method give you superior results?

Thanks,
Steve
 
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LanceD

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1- No center bushing. The purpose of Johnny's bushings are to turn one part at a time for superior results.
2- Yes.
 

Ligget

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One half at a time only!

Yes, I think it is more accurate than using a mandrel, plus its quicker to remove and insert blanks etc...

Try it, you`ll like it Steve!:)
 

Firefyter-emt

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Yes, you turn one half at a time. I tried the center bushing and it is a joke, kinda like trying to use a mandrel that had broken in half!

Much more accurate! Plus it only takes a scond to measure blanks, and CA is applied better!
 

leehljp

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In my opinion, you might think you would like to turn both at the same time, but if you start getting one end of the mandrel to flexing or deflecting, the precision of a half at a time becomes well worth it. I remember reading some time ago that a few people here turn one at a time anyway on a short mandrel because they get better precision.

Some people have not problem with flex or deflection, and for them the mandrel method is just fine.
 

rherrell

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Everybody is saying how much more "accurate" it is but I've tried it with the STOCK bushings and I just don't see it. Maybe with Johnnies custom bushings, I don't know. I turn just one barrel at a time on a rod in my Beall and I shorten it up all the way. I can't feel any out of round so I don't feel justified in buying custom bushings.
 

CHICAGOHAND

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Mandrels worked fine for me for a while then the live center and the tip of the mandrel started having relationship problems and just would'nt get along and gave me quite a few out of round pens. so off to wood craft for a new mandrel and occasionaly a new live center and got everyone working together again and it happened again so now I have been turning for a short time and have quite a few mandrels with useless tips. Then business starts picking up and I say to myself if i get a big customer there is no way I am selling a pen that has a ridge right where there finger holds the pen and can feel how out of round it is.
So I got just that, a customer who wants 30 pens as just the beginning and am now turning between centers with bushings and dead and live 60 degree centers.
thanks johnny cnc.

http://www.penturners.org/forum/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=2413
 

leehljp

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Originally posted by rherrell

Everybody is saying how much more "accurate" it is but I've tried it with the STOCK bushings and I just don't see it. Maybe with Johnnies custom bushings, I don't know. I turn just one barrel at a time on a rod in my Beall and I shorten it up all the way. I can't feel any out of round so I don't feel justified in buying custom bushings.

Rick,

There are several fine points in the mix here and it can get confusing when it gets down to details.

Over the past three years the I have been here, I have noticed many posts that had problems due to 1. minutely' bent mandrels, or 2. mandrels flexing because the nut has been tightened too tight, or 3. the tail stock has been tightened a tad too much, or 4. wear on the mandrell, or 5. dull chisels, . . .

Any and all of these have contributed problems that could be corrected either with a new mandrel or adjustments or sharpening a chisel better. For most, the real problem is almost imperceptible to feel or to see. The mandrel less method takes one item out of the equation that is not always at fault but sometimes is - the mandrel.

Take the mandrel out and 1 -4 above is eliminated. Granted, most people do not have all 4 problems on the same turnings - usually just 1.
 

rherrell

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Originally posted by leehljp

Originally posted by rherrell

Everybody is saying how much more "accurate" it is but I've tried it with the STOCK bushings and I just don't see it. Maybe with Johnnies custom bushings, I don't know. I turn just one barrel at a time on a rod in my Beall and I shorten it up all the way. I can't feel any out of round so I don't feel justified in buying custom bushings.

Rick,

There are several fine points in the mix here and it can get confusing when it gets down to details.

Over the past three years the I have been here, I have noticed many posts that had problems due to 1. minutely' bent mandrels, or 2. mandrels flexing because the nut has been tightened too tight, or 3. the tail stock has been tightened a tad too much, or 4. wear on the mandrell, or 5. dull chisels, . . .

Any and all of these have contributed problems that could be corrected either with a new mandrel or adjustments or sharpening a chisel better. For most, the real problem is almost imperceptible to feel or the see. The mandrel less method takes one item out of the equation that is not always at fault but sometimes is - the mandrel.

Take the mandrel out and 1 -4 above is eliminated. Granted, most people do not have all 4 problems on the same turnings - usually just 1.

This is exactly my point. If the problem is THAT imperceptible than IN MY BOOK there is no problem, ergo, no need for custom bushings.
 

BDKS

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I had no problems with the out-of round turning. A problem that is making me consider changing is the finishing process. I had my first ca finish chip out due to being stuck to the busings. :(
 

leehljp

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Originally posted by rherrell

Originally posted by leehljp

Originally posted by rherrell

This is exactly my point. If the problem is THAT imperceptible than IN MY BOOK there is no problem, ergo, no need for custom bushings.

Sorry for missing your point. Since you were mentioning your Beall and Mandrel, I thought you were comparing it to that. I have a Beall and use it on some things. I even the full set of in-between collets.

Overall, most bushings are good, but when it comes to perfection and making a $250.00+ pen, you don't want to feel any difference in the fit between the blank and the fitting.

The problem with the "imperceptibility" is that it is only imperceptible while it is on the lathe and mandrel. But when it comes to fit, Fingers can "feel" differences of an 1/500th of an inch and even smaller. When the bushing is out of round by .005, you can move a $250 pen to $50 or $75.

That is why I quit using the bushings to size a blank and why I moved away from mandrels. The bushing is required on the mandrell all the way through on the process. On the mandrel-less method, once the blank is down to sanding size, you can take the bushing off. But with a custom bushing, you can be assured of much better than a .005 tolerance, which to me is worth it.

This was a process in discovery for me , and I discovered only as I got more experience. I am not saying that other people have as bad luck on bushings as I have, but my experience with bushings has barely been acceptable - 75%. And with my own testing, I discovered it was the store bought bushings, not the lathe.

Some bushings are great, some are not. I personally prefer one custom guaranteed set than taking my chance with having to send a store bought bushing back - with the postage from Japan being the price of 2 sets of ordinary bushings.
 

Rifleman1776

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A word of caution when setting up to do 'no mandrel' turning or when you buy a live center for use with your mandrel. Get a top quality live center that is made with hardened steel. The one shown below cost about $5.00 and I gave no thought to wether or not it was hardened when i bought it. It has been in use about a year and used considerably. So, I guess I can't complain about getting my money's worth. But, I do like things to last and remain accurate. This one no longer is accurate. Spend the extra and buy quality. Some even have carbide tips. Check out machinists supplies for a larger selection than in the woodturning catalogs.

2008130141348_center%20tip.jpg
 

rherrell

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Point well taken Hank. I did forget to mention that I only use the mandrel to get it CLOSE. I then remove the bushings and put it on one of my homemade Delrin dead centers in my Beall and sand it down to .003 under the kit hardware, which I measure with calipers. I leave it on for finishing also. SO, technically I guess I AM turning between centers, just not with custom bushings. Ya' gotta stick with me, the truth will come out, SOONER OR LATER!:D:D
 

doohboy24

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As a new turner, 4 months now, i bought johnny's bushings a month ago to try them out. my pens went from 50 75 range a one show to 125 150 at the next the money to me was well spent. I use them down to sanding point then remove sand and put on the delrin bushings and finish. i love them. plus now with doing one barrel at a time i seem to be much more accurate on my fittings mating together with the barrels.
 

rherrell

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Lee, I like the method, just not sold on the need for custom bushings. But who knows, maybe one day I'll come around to your way of thinking. Stranger things have happened!:D
 

Firefyter-emt

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Rick, don't get me wrong.. I still turn most of my kits with stock bushings. You can tell the diffrence with better made ones just how well they fit the brass tube. However, you will still get much better results with the stock bushings between center than on a mandrel.

I am all for giving it a go with the stock bushings, if you have the money, John's bushings are well worth the money for an even better fit. I have been saying for a while now that new turners should start with cigar kits and a dead center. I recomend this method just becasue the cigar kit is much better than the slim and they do not have to buy custom bushings right off the bat.
 

its_virgil

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I've been trying the between center turning. One thing I've noticed is that not all stock bushing work as well as others. What I've noticed: Bushings that are longer...that have more length exposed tend to wobble for me. One in particular is the sierra. This, coupled with their smaller diameter, seem to make the sierra stock bushings a little less favorable to this technique. I have cigar bushings that are longer than other cigar sets, but their larger diameter seems to make them more stable. Or, it could just be me. :D
Do a good turn daily!
Don
 
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