Which is better?

[Powerstroke 7.3]

I am just beginning and have a quick question. Reading how different people turn their pens some say they turn on the center while others use a mandrel. I pick things up pretty quick so for a rookie what would be a better way to start?

Exicited to start - better half is letting me order my Delta 46-460 on the 1st...

 

[nsfr1206]

Ummmm. 7.3 is better than 6.0. Actually, turn between centers.

 

[ed4copies]

Downside of turning between centers---bushings are more expensive.
Can only do one half of a two part pen, at a time with the commercially available bushings.

Upside--bushings are accurate.
Finishing is easier.

 

[PenMan1]

Ummmm. 7.3 is better than 6.0. Actually, turn between centers.

I agree with Ed, that many times (at least for the products that I make), that mandrel turning is a MUCH better process. Additionally, closed end pens are virtually impossible to do well, tbc.

For example, when I am making a custom pens with two barrels where that the flairs and designs must meet and match exactly, etc (I rarely turn anything bushing to bushing) turning between centers actually makes this process much more difficult and substantially less precise.

With tools such as the Beall Collet Chuck, JohnnyCNCs bushings ( which work equally well, if not better on a mandrel), bent mandrels, out of concentric barrels are things of the past.


When "making pens for a living" TBC at least doubles your time, and IMHO, gives back very little in (if any) improvement of product. CA finishing TBC is also frustrating trying to get the same depth of finish on each barrel. A set of eliminator bushings and a mandrel fit this bill quite nicely.

Respectfully submitted.

 

[nsfr1206]

I bow to experience I have just had oor problems with a mandrel. I have had them tbc too, though. I agree, if trying to match barrels it would be easier on a mandrel.

 

[nsfr1206]

(I rarely turn anything bushing to bushing) quote


I sure would like to see some of your designs penman. But I do understand why you don't post photos.

 

[Drstrangefart]

My approach has been "Learn what you actually own". I own a mandrel with bushings, so I haven't bothered with turning between centers. I own almost exclusively Slimline kits for the foreseeable future, so I learned how I can get the most out of them. So far any problems with over/under turn or OOR have been operator error. I'm happy with the results I'm getting nowadays and feel a lot more comfortable trying new ideas out to see if I can get something just a little better than the last one.

 

[ragz]

Downside of turning between centers---bushings are more expensive.
Can only do one half of a two part pen, at a time with the commercially available bushings.

Upside--bushings are accurate.
Finishing is easier.

You don't have to to use the tbc bushings, mandrel bushings will still work. You don't even have to to use bushings at all. If you have a pen that you produce on a regular basis that you've done over and over and over... you'll get close enough to then get out your calipers and check be final fit before sanding which most of us do anyway since bushing do wear down after awhile.

That said though I do agree a two part pen is easier on a mandrel.

 

[Powerstroke 7.3]

I believe I will buy a mandrel to start with - I know that a lot of starter kits come with the mandrel so I will probably try that and expand from there

I know you can spend a lot on turning pens but I have deep pockets for my hobbies - just not much in them....

 

[JimB]

I do both. For single barrel pens I turn between centers using the standard bushings, I have not bought any of the more expensive ones. For 2 barrel pens I use a mandrel. It helps me to be able to see the 2 barrels together and I find it faster.

Bottom line is you should try both and see what works best for you.

 

[PenMan1]

I do both. For single barrel pens I turn between centers using the standard bushings, I have not bought any of the more expensive ones. For 2 barrel pens I use a mandrel. It helps me to be able to see the 2 barrels together and I find it faster.

Bottom line is you should try both and see what works best for you.

Finally! The voice of reason. Well said, Jim.

 

[JeffT]

And, the people said, "Amen"...

 

[keithlong]

I turn both slimline blanks with one set of BCB and a short piece of a mandrel, with a short slimline bushing in between them. Have turned several of them without any problems.

 

[Lenny]

I really enjoy using johnnycnc's tbc bushings and his 7mm triple play will allow you to do many different style pens at a very reasonable cost. With that said however, I wouldn't be without a mandrel and can see, especially when you are first starting out, how it could be helpful to have both blanks mounted at the same time to better visualize the shape you want to get. Hope that makes sense.
The bottom line is ... as penturners we have to have EVERYTHING going! It's part of our creed!:biggrin:

 

[JimB]

I do both. For single barrel pens I turn between centers using the standard bushings, I have not bought any of the more expensive ones. For 2 barrel pens I use a mandrel. It helps me to be able to see the 2 barrels together and I find it faster.

Bottom line is you should try both and see what works best for you.

Finally! The voice of reason. Well said, Jim.

Thanks Andy.

 

[nativewooder]

In any kind of woodworking, woodturning, carving, etc., you set your own limits. That's part of the learning curve.

 

[jbswearingen]

Bottom line is you should try both and see what works best for you.

I agree.

I've turned only with a mandrel, but just started applying my CA between centers. For some reason I *always* get run out at the right end of my mandrel, so I only turn one half at a time, then switch them on the mandrel.

I'll eventually try turning BTC.

 

[ctubbs]

I believe I will buy a mandrel to start with - I know that a lot of starter kits come with the mandrel so I will probably try that and expand from there

I know you can spend a lot on turning pens but I have deep pockets for my hobbies - just not much in them....

Aaron, about the 'starter kit', I did just that, as so many do. There are parts from that kit that I have not and most likely never will use. Go to the Library and check out this article, http://content.penturners.org/library/general_reference/Getting_started_in_pen_turning.pdf. There are some great ideas there and suggestions on what you will need. Most of the members here have already been there, done that and still have the 'starter set' to prove it.
By the way, welcome to the addiction, grab some wood or your blank of choice and have a lot of fun.
The advice above is well intended and correct, both methods have their merits and are both useful in their own rights and for the need at hand.
Charles

 

[moke]

Andy is always the voice of reason....and in my opinion, spot on with this issue. I have spent a fair amount of cash on a number of things that I seldom or never use. It just seems to be the way this hobby/occupation works. TBC, IMHO is great for lots of things and is undoubtedly more accurate....having said that, as previously stated takes longer, and with two barrell pens seems maybe, a little "disjointed". I do however TBC a fair amount. I have some Johnny CNC bushing and they are second to none!!! I like to turn a lot of different pen types, so a lot of the bushings are not readily available in TBC, and by comparison TBC bushings are expensive. So I have used a 60 degree drill on the ends of some "off the rack" bushings to allow them to be used TBC.

For some reason I just feel more comfortable on a mandrel, and I use a 8x1 adapter instead of a MT2 to hold the mandrel. If you don't keep that MT hole clean it can and will effect the way the mandrel sits. Further, I have thrown mandrels away over the last couple years. ( 3 or 4 maybe) They will bend and get damaged. I almost always have 4 or 5 kinds in my tool chest. Roll them on your table saw casting to see if they are flat, if there is some question...pitch it! (Do the same with your drill bits too)

I think you will find a lot of great turners on this site that swear by TBC, and their work is fantastic, but you need to do what you are comfortable with. There are many techniques for most any process, experiment to see what you like. ( Of course get your Mastercard ready)

 

[ToddMR]

I started out on a mandrel, but now do most stuff TBC. I just like it more for me personally. I haven't really had CA finishing issues with TBC personally. I will break out the mandrel from time to time, but I did buy the TBC slimline bushings from JohnnyCNC which has helped. These days I do more resin based blanks so again CA isn't a huge deal to me. Like so many others have said, start out with the mandrel and see how it goes/feels to you. With the mandrel I like using PSI's mandrel saver since they redesigned it over a live 60 degree center. But again that is my personal preference. Good luck with whatever you decide to go with.

 

[Texatdurango]

Aaron,

Asking which is BETTER around here will always get a ton of different opinions and when the dust settles you are probably no better off than before you asked. :biggrin:

I offer two things to consider......

1. Turning between centers "TBC" became very popular a few years ago around here and dozens upon dozens if not hundreds of members switched from using their mandrels to TBC and I can't recall any posts where a member said he regretted switching so hundreds of pen turners here can't be all wrong and TBC can't be all that bad. I haven't a clue where my mandrels are these days and I wish I had never bought them!

2. Sadly the longer a thread like this goes on, the more exxagerated the claims become, usually by those who still use mandrels and I don't think it paints a fair picture for the beginner seeking advice.

We always hear... "Take your time, do it right" but in these comparison discussions SPEED is often given as a reson not to TBC and I think losing 17.368 seconds per pen should not even be an issue let alone mentioned!

The second overly exxagerated issue in my mind is the mis-match of the upper and lower body as if one is going to wipe on 1/8" more CA on one barrel than the other. I have never heard anyone complain about this happening to them..... EVER, yet it's always brought up as a valid reason not to switch.

I say go the direction you are comfortable with and if money is tight, go with the least expensive route until you can afford more tools. Either way will produce pens!

 

[Powerstroke 7.3]

Thanks for all the input.

I will try both and see what works for me - I can see the benefits of a mandrel towards two piece pens vs a one piece. As far as a starter kit goes I believe I will order what I need as I need it - I have scrolling accessories that I don't use that I have had for several years so I understand "nice to have vs need to have".

 

[moke]

I failed to mention, when you do CA finishes IMHO, the way to do those is use Delrin bushings on a different mandrel...

 

[Texatdurango]

I failed to mention, when you do CA finishes IMHO, the way to do those is use Delrin bushings on a different mandrel...

Or........... IMHO no bushings at all! Look at photos 15 and 16 for an example of an alternate method...... http://content.penturners.org/library/techniques/turningbetweencenters.pdf

 

[jbswearingen]

I failed to mention, when you do CA finishes IMHO, the way to do those is use Delrin bushings on a different mandrel...

Or........... IMHO no bushings at all! Look at photos 15 and 16 for an example of an alternate method...... http://content.penturners.org/library/techniques/turningbetweencenters.pdf

This is how I applied CA to my last two pens. I'm hooked.

 

[sbell111]

I use a mandrel. I've always used one and I haven't had any of the problems that drove others to TBC, so I have absolutely no incentive to change.

 

[Smitty37]

Both

In my opinion if you can turn great pens at all, you can turn great pens with either approach. I do both and I sometimes use a mandrel saver and sometimes do not. I've found the quality of my work (which is acceptable but not what I would call excellent) seems about the same no mater how I approach it. I think it has more to do with vision and patience than anything else.

 

[jimmyheikes]

I only use high precision A&B mandrels for any pen work. I find the high preceion mandrels more reliable............Jimmy

 

[Texatdurango]

I only use high precision A&B mandrels for any pen work. I find the high preceion mandrels more reliable............Jimmy

Certainly sounds impressive but what does it mean? What exactly is a high precision mandrel and how dies it differ from one ordered from one of a dozen vendors?

Can you give some details or examples? If their is a substantial difference over the typical mandrel I might be persuaded to go back to mandrel turning myself!