Berea High Precision Drill Driver System-Worth It?

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Randy_

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Berea has a HPDD mandrel system advertised in their catalog and they say, "...Please consider buying these they will significantly improve the quality of your pens..." They cost nearly twice as much as the standard arbor and mandrel.

I wonder if they really are better and if so, how do they allow the production of a better pen?? Anyone out there ever used one of these systems?? Thanks.
 
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Monty

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I've wondered the same thing myself. Of course if you as Berea directly, they'll tell you it's worth it. So how 'bout it, anyone ever compare the two?
 

BogBean

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I don't turn the Berea larger pens because I don't want to spend the money for the "B" mandrel but I can see it would be better...
 

Old Griz

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I just ordered one because the standard B mandrel is not long enough to work on a PF in the Axminster chuck... Larry at Berea said that this one is longer and all you have to do is knock off the bushing at the back... it is basically a longer version of the standard B mandrel with no threads on one end...
Price $7 plus shipping.... I will let you all know how it works out... it is supposed to be shipped today.
 

its_virgil

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You don't need the Berea B mandrel...get your bushings from woodcraft. Woodcraft sells Berea kits and all WC pens are turned on a regular 1/4" mandrel. Personally I don't think the drill driver system is any more accurate than other mandrel systems. I do have one and have used it but did not fall in love with it. I use the Beall collet chuck myself and it is really nice and accurate. I also have the Grizzly(vic mark knock off) chuck with the pin jaws and it does a nice job holding the mandrel true. But, I still prefer the Beall collet chuck.
Do a good turn daily!
Don
Originally posted by BogBean
<br />I don't turn the Berea larger pens because I don't want to spend the money for the "B" mandrel but I can see it would be better...
 

ctEaglesc

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The Perfect Fit cold by Woodcraft was known as tht convertible.
The operative word being <b>WAS</b>.
Woodcraft has discontinued selling them,
I managed to find one set of bushings for this pen for an "A" mandrel.
The only up side is they were discounted.
I got them for a buck
They are no longer in the catologue or the system but if you run across them grab them.
 

Monty

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It looks to me like most have been comparing the "A" shaft to the "B" shaft.
I belive what was refered to in the first post is in reference to the difference of the High Precision Drill Driver System for $20.00 verses the Precision System at $15.00. Check out page 5 of their catalogue or look here, http://bereahardwoods.com/separatepages/4-5.pdf mid way down the second page on the left side.
 

RussFairfield

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The simple answer is NO. The drill driver is no better, and will not offer any improvement in accuracy over a straight standard mandrel. The only difference is how the mandrel is attached to the taper adapter.

While offering an adjustable mandrel length, the adjustable collet drivers that I have used were less accurate (sometimes a lot less accurate) than the standard mandrel that screwed into the tapered adapter.

The only way to get an adjustable length mandrel with dead-on accuracy at the same time is with a Bealle or similar quality collet chuck. But, the mandrel still has to be straight.

My opinion. Others may have different experiences.
 

its_virgil

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My comment clearly noted that, in my opinion, the drill driver system is no better than any other mandrel system. Runout was the same as my other mandrel holding devices. Also noted was I use the Beall collet chuck and find it far superior to any other mandrel holding system. What the catalog says about the drill driver, in my opinion, is advertising hype.
Do a good turn daily!
Don
quote]Originally posted by Monty
<br />It looks to me like most have been comparing the "A" shaft to the "B" shaft.
I belive what was refered to in the first post is in reference to the difference of the High Precision Drill Driver System for $20.00 verses the Precision System at $15.00. Check out page 5 of their catalogue or look here, http://bereahardwoods.com/separatepages/4-5.pdf mid way down the second page on the left side.


[/quote]
 

its_virgil

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I think the conlusion is that a mandrel mounted on a MT arbor is as accurate as the berea drill driver system. Berea may disagree. PSI has mandrels mounted on a large nut that screws onto the headstock threads. Do any of our metal lathe guys know whether the MT mounted mandrel would be any more accurate that the PSI mandrel that screws onto the heasstock threads? I would give an educated guess that the MT would be more accurate than 8x1 theads or whatever the thread pitch is. Do a good turn daily!
Don
Originally posted by gerryr
<br />So, based on all this, the best deal on a mandrel is from Woodcraft, $9.99 and you can buy an extra shaft for only $2.99.
 

ctEaglesc

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eh shafts for the WC mandrels have a different thread for the MT adapter.
If you buy their shaft you need their adapter.
They will not inter change with most others.
The OD measurement(not being too technical is .18
The others are .25 with a different thread pitch)
I recently bought some shafts from WC but found out they will only work in the Pro mandrel or a collet chuck.
 

gerryr

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I wasn't recommending using a WC mandrel shaft with someone else's MT adapter. The WC mandrel complete is about $10 cheaper than anyone else's basic mandrel. I have one and have also purchased an extra shaft for it and I don't have any complaints.
 

scubaman

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A couple of comments. I've used pretty much all mandrels over the years, but never the Berea with the MT adapter. So this one I can't comment on.

Re. A vs B size: There should be no argument that B is stiffer. The A mandrel is .246" the B is .290". Larger diameter is stiffer.

I liked the drill driver setup because it's simple, there were always replacement shafts available which I don't think was true 10 years ago if Berea even had a MT2 screw-in mandrel then - I don't recall. The advantage I always saw is that the bushing is a press-fit over a raised dimple, so you can adjust the length a little.

I consider the difference between a $15 and a $20 mandrel totally insignificant...

I used to go through mandrels, but frankly, I don't any more. I do virtually everything on a B mandrel, to the extent that I ream out bushings that only come in A size. I've used the same mandrel for probably 2 years now. I just replaced it, because the tailstock end had mushroomed sufficiently. That was a mandrel I had made, and I used a slightly large center-drill. I can't even tell why I used to replace mandrels... it's been too long! I suspect I bent them... Don't recall. Probably though. Better turning technique maybe by now, better squaring, sharper tools. Anyway, I consider mandrel expense totally irrelevant.

I've heard it said that the high-precision mandrel is hardened. Take a small file and cut a notch at the headstock end and convince yourself that it may be hardened, but not a lot ;-) I also was looking for data that a hardened mandrel should be stiffer and could not support that anywhere.

Beall chuck vs MT: Though I very much like my Beall chuck and would not want to be without it, I think in principle the MT (specifically the drill driver) is more accurate since it references the ground inner surface of the spindle. That is a high precision surface. I am convinced that the nose thread is less precision. And if you think of the way a male and a female thread interact, you can appreciate that there has to be some slop. In my case, the Beall chuck fit is extremely good and repeatable, but I have heard of others where that is not the case, and saw a lathe where that thread was WAY off! So theoretically the MT may even be better. I'm lucky and happy and will continue to use the Beall chuck.

The reason I like the drill driver a little better is that I don't trust the solid MT to be machined to the same precision, and the interface between MT and mandrel, that thread, is again a potential source of inaccuracy. Simplicity wins! I don't mean to say that most solid shank MTs are off by a lot, but if you looked at a large enough smaple of both you'd find the runout distribution of the DD setup to be tighter.

The replacement mandrel I just made is a simple piece of zize L drill rod. The critical step is to drill a perfectly centered hole using a center-drill in the tail-stock end. That is the ONLY precision machining step necessary! Then you can cut down a section to 1/4" and add the thread of your choice - I choose 1/4-28. So if you need a slightly longer mandrel, it's EXTREMELY easy with the Beall chuck or drill-driver, a little more complex with the screw-in mandrel. More precision steps for the interface to the MT! You can get the DD from Berea, or you can buy one from a machineshop supply house, it's a standard part. I think Berea offers these as a convenience.
 

Randy_

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Originally posted by scubaman<br />...I consider the difference between a $15 and a $20 mandrel totally insignificant...

To clarify, there was mistake posted earlier that has now been repeated. Last year Berea charged $12 for the standard MT/mandrel and $20 for the HPDD system. The current price is $15 for the standard system and $25 for the HPDD. For some folks the price difference may not be a big deal; but please remember that not everyone is so fortunate and for people on a tight budget, the price difference may be a consideration!!
 

Randy_

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I sent an email to Berea about this topic and received the following information. They suggested that attaching the mandrel to the arbor using a threaded connection was less precise than using the HPDD method. They also said that many folks who bought the HPDD systems used them in metal lathes rather than wood lathes and that the quality of the wood lathe would determine if the extra precision was useful or not. They also offered to give a more complete explanation if I would call them; but I haven't had the opportunity to do that yet.
 

Daniel

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From what I understand, the drill driver system is supposed to be something that high precision machine shops use to get dead on accurate turnings etc. this is all fine and dandy if you have a high precision driver system. insure there are no foul things in it such as dust, rust, glue or wood chips, and then have all the tooling (as in mandrel) lathe, and other do dads that are precision enough to make such accurate cuts.
in our case I think we would end up with a driver system that is accurate to 0.001 inches on a lathe or a mandrel that is only accurate to 0.01 inches or less.
the only thing i have found that has actually increased the accuracy of my turnings, is my Nova Chuck.(note read, QUALITY CHUCK).
 

scubaman

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Originally posted by Daniel
<br />on a lathe or a mandrel that is only accurate to 0.01 inches or less.
the only thing i have found that has actually increased the accuracy of my turnings, is my Nova Chuck.(note read, QUALITY CHUCK).
If you got .01" runout in your spindle, throw it out. If it's your mandrel, throw it out, or fix it. No Nova chuck is going to fix runout. I assume you are talking about pen turning, since this is a penturning forum? Other turnings are a completely different story.
 

Daniel

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Richard,
Yes I'm talking about penturning. and yes holding the mandrel with the chuck did help with the accuracy of my turnings. what I need to throw out is my lathe.
Mandrels are not that accuratly machined. drill rod would be more consistant certainly after a few pens have been turned on it. I have had a machinest suggest using a long 1/4 inch pin, hardened and very accurate. Very very expensive, at least the ones he was showing me.
 
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