Benefits of TBC...

[AKPenTurner]

Well, I've gotten tired of fighting blanks turning out of whack. My mandrel is a little bent I suppose, if I fight with it (adjust and readjust and adjust again), I can still make pens that I'm proud to sell. But I am tired of fighting every single time I turn.

So, my question is, what benefits am I going to get from buying live and dead centers and turning between centers, versus the cheaper option of a Precision Center?

I'm also wanting to work towards more advanced pens and going kitless. Is a TBC set-up going to save me trouble down the road?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Lenny]

First of all, if you are turning pens using a mandrel, you should already have a 60 degree live center in the tail stock (or one of the mandrel saver centers similar to what you linked to). Using something other than a 60 degree center could very well destroy your mandrel end.

So to TBC all you really need is a 60 degree dead center, the 60 degree live center and a short tool rest, as you will be working on one blank at a time. Special bushings make it very precise but aren't necessary to get started, you can use the regular bushings you already have. Try it! You will be glad you did!

 

[paintspill]

tbc is definitely the way to go, as far as kitless goes, i think that is a different road all together, but tbc is a great next step. i started and love it. i bought a live and dead center and i think it put me out less than 30 bucks.

 

[Joe S.]

I don't even use bushings anymore, tbc and calipers!

 

[AKPenTurner]

Thanks for the replies!

This is what I've been using in my tailstock. Pretty sure it's not 60 degrees, not to mention that it isn't capable of holding larger tubes...

 

[Lenny]

No, you are right, that is a standard cup center. What you want is one like this http://www.woodturningz.com/products/LCENTLT.jpg
And a dead center like this ..
http://www.woodturningz.com/WS/30/DEADCENT2_SALE.jpg
Then you just need a short tool rest so you can get in close enough to your work. Hth

 

[Dale Allen]

I'd advise getting a carbide tipped center for the headstock. It will last longer and not much more. I think I got mine at the griz.
The one in the headstock that drives the turning is often called a dead center but that is really an incorrect reference. Dead centers used to be used in the tailstock before the rolling live centers came along.
I remember a very old homecraft lathe that my dad had which used a dead center. It would quickly burn the end of the stock and you would constantly have to tighten the quill.
PSI and CSUSA both have 60 degree live ctrs. Get a good one because it is going to get a lot of use.

 

[Crashmph]

Thanks for the replies!

This is what I've been using in my tailstock. Pretty sure it's not 60 degrees, not to mention that it isn't capable of holding larger tubes...

No worries... that is a common mistake. Using that live center will burn out the tip in no time using a mandrel on it.

You can get a dead center for about $6 from grizzly and then a very nice live center for about $28 from there too. SHipping would only be a few bucks and you can get it rather quick. You will forever be happy that you went to a mandrel-less pen turning method.

Check out the library for more information about how it works.

 

[AKPenTurner]

How are the cheap live centers? For example how do these hold up compared to the high quality ones?

EDIT: (Had all those last replies come in before I posted this... thanks for the suggestions!)

 

[Dale Allen]

The better ones have either 2 sets of bearings or roller bearing.
Basically the better ones will outlast and outperform.

 

[Chrisjan]

I made the transition to tbc and love it! Still use my mandrel to sand and polish on 2 barrel pens; I put them right next to each other and sand and polish across - but for a change my barrels are center and not off center or out of round!

 

[opfoto]

I have to made the transition albeit slowly to TBC. So far so good. I am liking my round pens barrells! Try it.....you may like it too!

 

[Joe S.]

If you have a collet chuck (or any chuck) you can make a dead center.

 

[edstreet]

Let me try to explain a few things about TBC that I am guessing no one has mentioned on this forum.

Visual effects of turning just ONE segment by itself is much better than turning with 2+ segments at once. With multiple segments not only are you distracted by the look, shape, color, texture, problems etc with the OTHER blank that distracts your attention but the space relation between the head and tail stock is always lumpy and not centered. Many may not see it or ignore it or pass it off as pointless. In order to balance everything out you have to look at the big picture and immediately you loose focus on the smaller details (the proverbial cant see the tree because of the forest) By doing TBC you eliminate variables that would distract your attention, it will single out that one tree in the forest. On TBC the section is centered, balanced and gets your full attention.

Once all the sections are done you can put them together (not talking assembly here either) and see the forest part of the picture. Then decide from there. Matching and the like can be seen better at this point than before turning.

The various problems with the mandrels does not exist with TBC like bent shaft from to much pressure, different mandrel sizes,

 

[mmoncur]

I have that $15 live center you linked and it's worked fine for me so far (about 15 pens). I've used it both with the mandrel and with a dead center for TBC.

I've found that I prefer a mandrel for 2-piece pens since my slow CA finish takes 3 hours or so and I don't want to have to do each piece separately. But TBC works great for 1-piece pens. (Or 2-piece pens with a bushing that connects the two in the middle, that works too.)

 

[AKPenTurner]

Visual effects of turning just ONE segment by itself is much better than turning with 2+ segments at once. With multiple segments not only are you distracted by the look, shape, color, texture, problems etc with the OTHER blank that distracts your attention but the space relation between the head and tail stock is always lumpy and not centered. Many may not see it or ignore it or pass it off as pointless. In order to balance everything out you have to look at the big picture and immediately you loose focus on the smaller details (the proverbial cant see the tree because of the forest) By doing TBC you eliminate variables that would distract your attention, it will single out that one tree in the forest. On TBC the section is centered, balanced and gets your full attention.

This surprises me. One of my concerns about TBC was the fact that on two-barrel pens I wouldn't be able to see the whole pen. I'm starting to get excited about this process!

Thanks again for the replies, I appreciate it!

 

[Dale Allen]

Something you should do when turning between centers is mark your blanks, on 2 section pens, if you are wanting to maintain the orientation. I use a fine felt tip marker and put a black mark inside the brass tube on the ends that meet in the middle. I know that later I can probably match them up but some are not so obvious. Also, I want to know while turning them because the grain looks different after it is turned down.
Something else I do is use a reference marker. It is a small piece of wood that sits on a shelf above the lathe. One end has CTR written on it and I either match the blank on the lathe to the marker or turn the marker end for end. Do that first and then I don't have to take the blank off the lathe to see which end is which to get the sizing correct.

 

[azamiryou]

I heartily encourage TBC.

BUT, that live center you've been using is probably the main reason your mandrel is causing so many problems.

If you have an adjustable mandrel or a collet chuck, you can take the baby-step of getting the 60-degree live center. Then your center will stop wrecking your mandrel, and you can use the adjustable mandrel or collet chuck to shorten the mandrel to exactly the length you need, minimizing flex. To minimize flex even more on a two-barrel pen, turn one barrel at a time.

At that point, you're just a dead center and short tool rest away from being able to TBC, so you can take that step whenever you're ready.

A note on TBC bushings: you can use your regular bushings except for 7mm pens, like slimlines. To TBC slimlines, you'll need to do it without bushings, or buy or make some special bushings. The regular slimline bushings won't work because they don't slip into the tubes.