Beall Collet Chuck and "B" mandral rods

[tdibiasio]

I recently upgraded to a beall chuck and have a few questions.

First here is my basic equipment:
Jet 1220
60* live center
Beall Chuck
1/4 and 5/16 collets
8" "A" and "B" mandrel rods from Joe C

Now to my questions:
1. Should I be using the spanner wrench to tighten the collets to the mandrel rods? The reason for this question is that when I loosen the nut on the chuck after turning the pen the mandrel rod "Pops" to the right after the nut is loose. Is this normal or am I in some way over tightening it?

2. I have just recently purchased some kits that require me to use the "B" rods and I am experiencing some wobble when I turn the lathe on. I know that wobble is not a technical term, however I am not set up to accurately measure run out. To further define what "wobble" means I would describe what I am experiencing - after installing the 5/16 collet and a brand new mandrel rod, I tighten the chuck nut using the spanner wrench. When I turn the lathe on, 1800 rpm, I notice a slight wobble are the end of the mandrel rod. In order to eliminate possible causes I placed another new mandrel rod and check it again with the same results. I then reinstalled the 1/4" collet and "A" rod and the problem disappeared.

Does anyone have any suggestions or comments on either question.

 

[karlkuehn]

Well, I have no experience with the Beall chuck (soon, I hope), but I have noticed with my drill press chucks that if I shove some bits all the way to the back of the chuck before tightening it, it'll get some wobble to it. Maybe try and pull the mandrel out a little ways and see what happens...

Not sure if this helps you at all, but it's the best I can do! []

 

[Randy_]

First thing we need to clear up is whether you are using the Beall chuck properly. Some people know how to use the Beall and some don't. The collet should be inserted into the collar with a slight tipping motion. Then the collar and collet should be screwed onto the collet body and the mandrel inserted. Next thing I would check for is dirt. Be sure the collet and the mandrel are clean. Even a tiny bit of dirt or dust could cause a problem.

Given what you have stated, the only real variable is the 5/16" collet. I would take a close look at it.....use a magnifying glass if you have one.....make sure the slots are clean and there are no burrs or rough spots that might cause it to not seat properly in the collar or the chuck body. Since you know there is a wobble, obviously, you can see it. Can you give us any indication of how big it is? It shouldn't matter if the lathe is turning 1800 RPMS or 1 RPM, the wobble should still be there. Clamp something on the rest and adjust it til it just touches the mandrel at the TS end. Then rotate the hand wheel by hand and try to get some idea of the amount of movement.

Another thing you could try is to place the collet in the chuck in different positions...like 90° apart and see if that makes any difference. Sometimes the chuck will work better with the collet in one position rather than another if the collet is off a little.

As to the "popping" thing, this sounds like it might be normal. The collet does "pop" when it is pulled from the chuck body as the collar is unscrewed. I'll check mine a little later and see how the mandrel moves. Never really paid attention to the movement of the mandrel.

 

[Randy_]

Originally posted by tdibiasio
<br />.....Should I be using the spanner wrench to tighten the collets to the mandrel rods..... or am I in some way over tightening it?

I just hand tighten mine and usually need the spanner to get the collar off; but I doubt you can overtighten them even with the wrench unless you are a total klutz!![]

 

[Randy_]

Originally posted by Randy_
<br />.....I'll check mine a little later and see how the mandrel moves. Never really paid attention to the movement of the mandrel.

When my collet releases from the chuck body ("pops") the mandrel moves down and to the right.....about a 45° angle. Total movement is about 1/4". Direction of the movement is how it appears when looking at the chuck from the lathe tailstock.

 

[gwilki]

I wonder if part of the problem could be that the 5/16 collett is too big for the B rod. The rod is 8mm, I think. That's a couple of thousandths under 5/16". Is the mandrel snug in the collett before you start to tighten it, or is it sloppy?

 

[its_virgil]

When the retaining collar is loosened and removed from the chuck, the collet shold be pulled from the chuck with it. It the collet stays in the chuck when the collar is removed, the the collet is not installed in the collar correctly. The gripping range is a few thousands +/- for the collets and metric sizes are available. I use te 5/16 collet with the B mandrel with no problem.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

 

[jcollazo]

I seem to remember a thread in the past few months about a 5/16" collet that was a bit oversized. It was exchanged for another (don't know if it was a different vendor) and the problem went away. I'll search for it.

Just for reference, I use a Jet mini, Beall chuck, and collets from 800Kilowatt (eBay vendor) to make up the mandrels I sell. On the B rods I do seem to have to crank the chuck down with the spanner a lot more than with the A rods.

 

[Randy_]

The 5/16" collet is the correct one for the "B" mandrel. The grip range for ER32 collets is approximately 1mm. down from the labeled size. The 5/16" collet has a grip range from 0.312" to 0.273" and the "B" mandrel has a diameter of 0.291".

 

[jcollazo]

Originally posted by jcollazo
<br />I seem to remember a thread in the past few months about a 5/16" collet that was a bit oversized. It was exchanged for another (don't know if it was a different vendor) and the problem went away. I'll search for it.

Found it! http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22932

 

[IPD_Mrs]

I would have to say you either have something in one of the fins of the collet or your "B" mandrel is bent. I would say the last option is slight, but could have been bent in shipping.

Mike

 

[Randy_]

Originally posted by jcollazo<br />.....<b>800Kilowatt (eBay vendor)</b> to make up the mandrels I sell. On the B rods I do seem to have to crank the chuck down with the spanner a lot more than with the A rods.

Joe: That makes perfect sense. The 7 mm ("A") mandrel is only 3-7 thousandths smaller than the labeled collet size. The "B" mandrel is 21 thousandths smaller. You do have to crank down a little more to properly grip the "B" mandrel.

BTW, I see you have given the eBay collet seller a promotion. He used to be 800watt!! [][]

 

[jcollazo]

Originally posted by tdibiasio
<br />When I turn the lathe on, 1800 rpm, I notice a slight wobble are the end of the mandrel rod. In order to eliminate possible causes I placed another new mandrel rod and check it again with the same results. I then reinstalled the 1/4" collet and "A" rod and the problem disappeared.

I had missed the part about the 1800rpm. So, you're saying at even at the next lower speed there's no wobble? At the lower speed, with no blank on the mandrel and no thumbnut, can you feel any sort of wobble? Taking it to the next higher speed try the same thing. In both cases it should feel silky smooth. It almost sounds like the thumbnut may be cranked on too tight but that should not be a problem with the nylon thumbnut heads you got from me.

Tom, if you think it's the mandrel itself I'd be more than happy to replace it.

 

[tdibiasio]

Guys - Thanks for all the great suggestions. I have tried them all with no luck. So I decided to contact Beall, I ordered the chuck and collets directly from them, the women was VERY helpful and put a new collet in the mail right away. Absolutely the best customer service I have personally received, no questions asked except for "What address can we ship a new one to". I am hoping this will solve the problem. I will update when I test the new ones.

 

[Randy_]

There seem to be only two variables changed from a working system to a non-working system so that is where we need to look first. The only changes were a different mandrel and a different collet. Since two different mandrels were tried and both had the same problem, that points one in the direction of the collet, itself. Also, mandrels are fairly simple devices and one would not expect two of them to both be defective.

Per your email, Tom, I know you are still having the same problem with the replacement collet. I would refer you back to the thread authored by Peter and referenced by Joe that indicated Peter had to go through <b>"THREE"</b> replacement collets before he got one that was OK.(And from what he said, I assume his collets were Beall collets although he never actually stated it directly.) We can set you up to take a few measurements as discussed privately; but I would be inclined to make another call to Beall and try to talk directly to J.R. Beall rather than the nice customer service lady. Chances are she doesn't know squat about the technical aspects of the collets.

I guess it wouldn't hurt to give the two "B" mandrels a quick check just to be sure they are not a problem.(Not that I think that they are.) Take the two mandrels and roll them on a piece of windowglass or a coffee table or some other surface that you think is quite flat.(kitchen countertop??) If you can see any irregularities or hear a clicking sound, they might be the problem.