Baron at threads end - or thread protectors needed

[bradbn4]

I just finished my 8th baron pen - and I managed to crush one set of threads on the pen. Too bad it was not one of the pen kits I have in stock. So next time AS/BB have them on sale I will be lined up in the queue for a few more.

I have the mandrel to make captured end Baron pens - so I guess I can make a few of that style for the spare parts.

Before I installed the hardware I did take a quick look at the tube and it looked clean. I was pushing in the last bit to tighten rings when I noticed the damage.

I understand that one of the Statesman pen kits include some tread protectors. . .

Which of the Statesman kits work? I was hoping to wait until the next group buy before I increase the types of kits I make. Better yet, any one willing to sell a few thread protectors from their old Statesman kit?

My next thought is to use a plastic cutting board with an appropriate size hole to prevent the loss of the thread. That way when I push the pen together the force would be on the metal right - not the threads.

I can see it now - "can I borrow the cutting board for a bit" - hmm - seems too large - let me square it up a bit on the band saw.


Bradbn4

 

[JimGo]

If I'm not mistaken, the thread protectors on the original Jr. Gent/Jr. Statesman should work on the Baron too. Haven't tried it before - hopefully someone will confirm/refute.

 

[reed43]

Yes they will work. The threads for the nibs on the baron and jr statesman and jr gents will interchange, however the outside threads on these same parts are not the same. The center coupler for a baron will not screw onto a jr statesman or jr gent.Hope this helps. Reed

 

[Rifleman1776]

Sounds like you put too much muscle into the assembly without checking alignment. Too bad. But, I agree, the plastic parts for the Baron are flimsy and subject to failure if one gets careless. I like the Baron but do have to wonder why this area of cheapness exists on an elegant and, otherwise, quality item.

 

[Ryan]

I made my first Baron a few months ago. I made a closed end pen with it and the pen turned out fantastic until I pressed in the threads for the nib. It crushed on me[}] This has never happend to me with a Jr Gent or Jr Statesman, Statesman etc... I have not bought one since.

Ryan

 

[Geo in Winnipeg]

Aren't the threaded couplers that the trim rings fit over on the barrel of the Baron pens metal? I know the black center band coupler that presses into the cap is plastic. Is there something here I'm not understanding?

 

[bradbn4]

The cap contains a plastic insert - however; I think the threads are plastic coated metal.

I did not think I pressed to hard - well it did break right? - - maybe adapt the jigg press to stay away from the threads and hit the metal ring.

Another thought - I think I saw BB from AS demo a nice Harbor Freight press that could be adpated without worry.

Bradbn4 - turning away in Colorado

 

[clewless]

Brad,

I feel your pain. I currently have a baron kit without threads, because I too crunched a pair...found that I hadn't cleaned the tube interiors well enough for this pen kit. [][] Got away with it too often with other kits.......

This has forced me to try a couple of closed end pens to recover the parts.[]

 

[Rudy Vey]

Originally posted by Rifleman
<br />Sounds like you put too much muscle into the assembly without checking alignment. Too bad. But, I agree, the plastic parts for the Baron are flimsy and subject to failure if one gets careless. I like the Baron but do have to wonder why this area of cheapness exists on an elegant and, otherwise, quality item.

Frank I do not know how many Barons you made, but the two threaded parts are not plastic, they are brass coated with black paint or else. The only plastic part on the Baron is the female threaded part inside the cap.
This is the second time I herad that someone crushed the threads, wonder what they do?? Never crushed one, but I always use a de-burring tool on the tubes and assemble carefully using an arbor press. I think the "crushers" using clamps and have not much control.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Originally posted by Rudy Vey
<br />

Originally posted by Rifleman
<br />Sounds like you put too much muscle into the assembly without checking alignment. Too bad. But, I agree, the plastic parts for the Baron are flimsy and subject to failure if one gets careless. I like the Baron but do have to wonder why this area of cheapness exists on an elegant and, otherwise, quality item.

Frank I do not know how many Barons you made, but the two threaded parts are not plastic, they are brass coated with black paint or else. The only plastic part on the Baron is the female threaded part inside the cap.
This is the second time I herad that someone crushed the threads, wonder what they do?? Never crushed one, but I always use a de-burring tool on the tubes and assemble carefully using an arbor press. I think the "crushers" using clamps and have not much control.

I've made lots. And to make sure I wasn't having a morning pre-caffine fix or senior CRS episode, I went and looked at some. The threaded parts ( couplers ) are all plastic. Some internal threading is metal, agree on that. But the couplers he had problems with are plastic and, in my opinion, rather flimsy, especially for a quality pen. Like you, I've never crushed one because I take precautions and am aware of just how delicate they are.

 

[Fangar]

Originally posted by Rifleman
I've made lots. And to make sure I wasn't having a morning pre-caffine fix or senior CRS episode, I went and looked at some. The threaded parts ( couplers ) are all plastic. Some internal threading is metal, agree on that. But the couplers he had problems with are plastic and, in my opinion, rather flimsy, especially for a quality pen. Like you, I've never crushed one because I take precautions and am aware of just how delicate they are.

That is strange. Mine are all metal. Black coated brass, I believe.

Fangar

 

[Rifleman1776]

Originally posted by Fangar
<br />

Originally posted by Rifleman
I've made lots. And to make sure I wasn't having a morning pre-caffine fix or senior CRS episode, I went and looked at some. The threaded parts ( couplers ) are all plastic. Some internal threading is metal, agree on that. But the couplers he had problems with are plastic and, in my opinion, rather flimsy, especially for a quality pen. Like you, I've never crushed one because I take precautions and am aware of just how delicate they are.

That is strange. Mine are all metal. Black coated brass, I believe.

Fangar

Looked again, this time at parts in a kit. Plastic. The center coupler is plastic and is squishable with fingers. The ends (post and cap) have brass thread inserts but external are clearly plastic. My last several orders have been from Arizona Silhouette so, I would presume, that whatever I get is the same as others. Agree, strange.

 

[DCBluesman]

Took an unused coupler from a closed end Baron I made and scraped off the paint/powdercoat (whatever it is). Underneath is brass. The problem that I have witnessed with crushing the threads is that we often use leveraged tools for assembly. Go slowly and watch what you are doing. It only has to be snugged up, not jammed on.

 

[Geo in Winnipeg]

The coupler's threads are "rolled" into thin brass. Apply a bit too much force and the coupler will collapse like an accordion. They should require very little force to press them into the tube. Clean and de-burred tubes are a must.
The threads on one I just looked at feel a little "plasticky" (new word??). Maybe the coating is some type of plastic or rubbery powdercoating.

 

[Rudy Vey]

Originally posted by Rifleman
<br />

Originally posted by Rudy Vey
<br />

Originally posted by Rifleman
<br />Sounds like you put too much muscle into the assembly without checking alignment. Too bad. But, I agree, the plastic parts for the Baron are flimsy and subject to failure if one gets careless. I like the Baron but do have to wonder why this area of cheapness exists on an elegant and, otherwise, quality item.

Frank I do not know how many Barons you made, but the two threaded parts are not plastic, they are brass coated with black paint or else. The only plastic part on the Baron is the female threaded part inside the cap.
This is the second time I herad that someone crushed the threads, wonder what they do?? Never crushed one, but I always use a de-burring tool on the tubes and assemble carefully using an arbor press. I think the "crushers" using clamps and have not much control.

I've made lots. And to make sure I wasn't having a morning pre-caffine fix or senior CRS episode, I went and looked at some. The threaded parts ( couplers ) are all plastic. Some internal threading is metal, agree on that. But the couplers he had problems with are plastic and, in my opinion, rather flimsy, especially for a quality pen. Like you, I've never crushed one because I take precautions and am aware of just how delicate they are.

Frank, lets clarify some things here. The female thread inside the cap is made from high quality plastic, like on the El Grande as well. This plastic piece is pretty much fully supported by the brass tubes. The two male threads, at the nib end and the end where the cap would post, are made from brass, coated with a black material like a powder coat or else. I have heard on another board that there is a chance that these threads might collapse if too much force is applied at an angle, likewise it would happen if someone uses a clamp to force the parts together. The person who posted this claimed he ruined some 25-30% of Barons he made. The use of a dedicated pen press, bought or home made with toggle clamps can avoid this. The best way, I think, is the use of an arbor press that can be had pretty cheaply (more often cheaper than the dedicated pen presses Woodcraft, CSUSA or PSI sell)from Harbor Freight, I think I paid a tad less than $20 for mine.
The charm of an arbor press or dedicated pen press is that the assembly is somehow more under control than using a clamp with trigger/squeeze action (well when I started I used one as well, but quickly found the problem with them and then used the vise in my work bench).
Maybe the original poster enlightens us what thread he crushed.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I accept Lou's observation that, after scraping at the black, there is brass underneath. I didn't do any scraping. But I will agree that the parts are a bit flimsy and care must be taken to avoid crushing or collapsing. I have never collapsed one even when using my bench vise to assemble. With a proper pen press the job is easier but care must still be exercised. I like the Baron and think it a good kit. But a sturdier threading/coupling design would be an improvement.

 

[bradbn4]

The threads that I screwed up - were the ones on the lower barrel - not the end cap which works well and is 100% plastic.

I was thinking that I could use a few of my "cheap" tips from lower cost baron kits and use them to help protect both sides when pressing the parts together. I might have to get a different pen press from harbor freight if total length becomes a problem. Well the harbor freight tool(approx $30) it is not a pen press - but can be adapted to work quite well as one.

I buy alot of extra Baron tube kits and I have been using these in building my Baron pens. I botched only one out of 8 pens so far. The tube kits are from AS/BB and look to be the same size outside. The only thing I have found is that the black T cap ends are a bit lose - while it takes a good amount of effort to put in the cap end plastic sleave. So far I have just spot glued the end caps - and I have had no issues with the plastic sleave.


Bottom line:
I have aprox 20+ Barons kits in my supply kit - and I will order more Barons from Arizona Silhouette the next time they go on sale.
I have about 12 pen blanks cut and drilled for the Baron - I just need to find some time to glue in the tubes. It is nice to always have a few extra pen blanks ready to turn.

Between the thread protectors that can be used from Craft Supply Statesman kit or some minor modifications to my pen press should solve any issues I have putting together this fine pen. This problem I have with the crushed threads will be a non-issue once I find the right blank size to complete a captured end Barrons.

Bradbn4

 

[Bill Baumbeck]

We are now designing a pen kit that only requires a hammer for assembly. []

 

[Rudy Vey]

Originally posted by Bill Baumbeck
<br />We are now designing a pen kit that only requires a hammer for assembly. []

Bill, this was about time for such a pen - just make sure that any thread is made from hardened steel, so it won't collapse!![][}][]

 

[bradbn4]

Originally posted by Bill Baumbeck
<br />We are now designing a pen kit that only requires a hammer for assembly. []

I looked and looked - could not find it on your webside [?] however I did manage to get a few thread protectors for the Baron and let me tell you they work fanstastic. Hmmm, I think I could make a simple pen that uses bic pen re-fills, no tubes.

Just a thought - maybe find a source for this item and sell it?

I just repaired the Baron - nice Olive wood - and the combo of your Baron take apart kit with the thread protectors had the pen apart in seconds without a scratch.

I just finished glueing up 30 pen blanks tonight - 10 Baron's, 20 Cigar. I have finished sorting out another 30 pen blanks and I am getting them ready for the bandsaw.

So just when do you plan on selling that new pen kit of yours?

Bradbn4

 

[Bill Baumbeck]

Just as soon as as we can come up with new drill bits that nobody else has, indestructable plastic parts and a hammer that has less than .001" runout.[}]

 

[Geo in Winnipeg]

Originally posted by Bill Baumbeck
<br />Just as soon as as we can come up with new drill bits that nobody else has, indestructable plastic parts and a hammer that has less than .001" runout.[}]

Bill, I hope the hammer will have replaceable tips made with material of various resiliency to prevent marring the plating on the plastic parts [}][]

 

[Pipes]

I have made a fw and NOT 1 problem the kit seems to go in and everything fits fine !! actualy I think its one a the best kits Ive saw for quality IMHO !![]





http://affordablepipes.com/

 

[Pipes]

Originally posted by Pipes
<br />I have made a few and NOT 1 problem the kit seems to go in and everything fits fine !! actualy I think its one a the best kits Ive saw for quality IMHO !![]





http://affordablepipes.com/

 

[bradbn4]

The thread protectors have made a big difference - at least for me.

The Baron right now is my #1 pen I like to turn - - good design (hard to mess up the setup). And even if you do - easy to fix the problem and make it a very usable pen.

It could have been that one Baron had weak threads . . . or it caught a small piece of glue / burr of the brass fitting for that final push to get a good seat. I don't know - - and the only time I use a hammer to build the baron is for seating the two metal parts - and then it is a plastic hammer to prevent scratches.

What I do know it was only 1 Baron out of 40 I had issues.

Now to work on making a closed end Baron - - I have some nice pen blanks I picked up from AS and a nice cheif special that should do the trick. And with all them nice new drill bits from AS, I can make one of the pencil kits I picked up at woodcraft when they had their sale last month.


Bradbn4 - still having fun in Colorado on July 4th [8D]

 

[mick]

Originally posted by Bill Baumbeck
<br />We are now designing a pen kit that only requires a hammer for assembly. []

Bill will it be a BIG hammer? And one that nobody already has already has? [][][]

Seriously tho...if you use a dedicated pen press you SHOULD and I repeat SHOULD never have a problem using too much force to press our pens together.