Baron Question

[jkeithrussell]

Ok, putting together my first Baron and thought I'd ask a dumb question before I end up throwing a $15 kit in the trash.

On step 3C, where you install the couplers on the long tube, how do you know when to stop pressing? In other words, if you install the end coupler first, is there a natural stopping point in the pressing? When you turn it around to press in the nib coupler, how do you keep from over-pressing the end coupler? I'm hoping that the trim rings act as a buffer and prevent over-pressing, but I'm not sure.

Hope the question isn't too convoluted.

Also, is it customary to use a little CA to hold the parts and pieces together -- like the Finial/Clip and Center Ring?

 

[cowchaser]

I believe the black trim rings (I think they are threaded, really can't remember) should act as a stop. Just go slowly and if you are unsure do a little bit at a time and check your fit. Good luck.

Here are some instructions from AS if you don't have any.

http://arizonasilhouette.net/Pen%20Kit%20Instructions/BARON_INSTRUC_Rev1_Map2000-Model.pdf

 

[skiprat]

I'm hoping that the trim rings act as a buffer and prevent over-pressing,

Also, is it customary to use a little CA to hold the parts and pieces together -- like the Finial/Clip and Center Ring?

First part you are spot on. Just press them in till they ( the trim rings )are snug and you can't swivel them by hand.

Second part. You should not need any glue to hold the parts together.
However, if for whatever reason you do, ( bad kit, flared tube etc ) then avoid CA like the plague. It will wreck the plating. I use Loctite or even epoxy. I prefer the Loctite because I find it is easier to clean up.

 

[Rudy Vey]

As Skip said, the little ring actually is the limiter (?). Normally, you do not need glue for the pen parts. But for quite some time now I have had a lot of problems with the finial/clip cap - it needs to be glued in, and as Skip said do not use CA - use Loctite - I use red. If it is not glued in, the clip will start to rotate. I even had some kits where the cap just fell out - weird - never happened in the first years of Barons.

 

[jkeithrussell]

Ok -- thanks for the information.

 

[maxwell_smart007]

As long as you don't have glue in the tubes, you'll be fine...I wrecked a few Barons when I started because I was trying to force the couplers through some glue remnants in the blank...resulted in big troubles!

Andrew

 

[Chasper]

Stop, don't do it. Don't try to press in one of the end rings when there is another unprotected end ring on the other end of the tube. Make yourself a press block which is a small block of wood an inch or so long by small enough to use on your pen press, drill a hole in the press block that is slightly bigger than the threads but smaller than the collar. I can make an illustration if needed.

 

[jkeithrussell]

Stop, don't do it. Don't try to press in one of the end rings when there is another unprotected end ring on the other end of the tube. Make yourself a press block which is a small block of wood an inch or so long by small enough to use on your pen press, drill a hole in the press block that is slightly bigger than the threads but smaller than the collar. I can make an illustration if needed.

I think I understand. Not sure why I didn't think of the solution, but the problem has been nagging on me. The couplers are plastic and it just doesn't seem like a good idea to apply pressure to the side that is already seated. What I got from your post is to put a small block/piece of wood at one end of the press to capture the coupler that is already seated and allow pressing on the other end. Thanks for the tip.

 

[Chasper]

Here is what I mean by a press block. The idea is to transfer the pressure from the pen press to the collar without putting any pressure on the plastic threads.

 

[marcruby]

Is plastic couplers a new thing? All of mine are metal.

Marc

 

[jkeithrussell]

Is plastic couplers a new thing? All of mine are metal.

Marc

This is the first Baron that I've tried to make, so I don't know. The center band coupler, end cap coupler, and nib coupler are all black plastic with a copperish metal interior lining. The trim rings and cetner band are plated metal.

I have no complaints with the kit itself -- I just didn't want to screw it up.

 

[marcruby]

I think you're misreading the visual cues. The copper color you're seeing is the metal the coupler is made of, the black is a thin 'plating.' Or so it looks and feels to me. When I get home I'll pull a coupler out of my spares box and grind it down to see. I've never had a coupler bend under pressure, since I'm a cautious sort. I could see it happening, though.

Marc

 

[jkeithrussell]

I think you're misreading the visual cues. The copper color you're seeing is the metal the coupler is made of, the black is a thin 'plating.' Or so it looks and feels to me. When I get home I'll pull a coupler out of my spares box and grind it down to see.

Entirely possible. Please let me know what you come up with.

 

[maxwell_smart007]

Yep, the couplers are very thin metal...except on the Baron cap, which is plastic...at least, that's what I've always thought...

Andrew

 

[skiprat]

Here is what I mean by a press block. The idea is to transfer the pressure from the pen press to the collar without putting any pressure on the plastic threads.

Ok, we've agreed that the couplers are now metal. But I'm afraid I don't see the logic or merit in using a press block. I've heard it mentioned before too.
Below is a pic of a part assembled Baron. ( Yes the Rat does do wood now and then ) Both couplers are in place ready to be pressed in.
Now the dilema. I normally press both in together. I use a plastic coated clamp. If I only do one end at a time, then there is a risk of chipping the finish on the blank at the opposite end. But ok, lets say it doesn't.
Now I have to place the fitted end into the press block, right?
No thanks, the plating on the trim ring is the Stirling Silver and I don't want some chunk of hardwood rubbing on it.

Cheers for now

 

[Chasper]

Ok, we've agreed that the couplers are now metal. But I'm afraid I don't see the logic or merit in using a press block. I've heard it mentioned before too.
Below is a pic of a part assembled Baron. ( Yes the Rat does do wood now and then ) Both couplers are in place ready to be pressed in.
Now the dilema. I normally press both in together. I use a plastic coated clamp. If I only do one end at a time, then there is a risk of chipping the finish on the blank at the opposite end. But ok, lets say it doesn't.
Now I have to place the fitted end into the press block, right?
No thanks, the plating on the trim ring is the Stirling Silver and I don't want some chunk of hardwood rubbing on it.

Cheers for now

It sounds like it works for you. And I agree that the outer threads are black coated metal, but I know from experience that they can be crushed. If there is too much pressure on one end, the collar can damage the threads on the other end, it happened to me with I was pressing both ends in at the same time. When I called BB to get another he sent me a free replacement and told me to learn to use a press block. I've never had a problem with the hardwood doing damage to the finish.

Are you putting the cap on before pressing it into the tube?

 

[jskeen]

I will admitt, I've been guilty of overpressing a barron barrel before, and had the trim ring ride up over the last couple of threads. They are a little fragile, but if I recall, I was pretty much cranking down on it with my press. I still press both couplers in at the same time, just use a little lighter touch now.

 

[jkeithrussell]

Thanks for all of the tips. I finished the pen last night and everything went fine. I made a press block, but I don't think it is absolutely necessary. The press block will not harm the plating unless you really crank down the pressure. If you just use a light touch on the press, the couplers go on pretty easily. The Baron is a great kit.

I'm going to try to get some pictures up later today to show off the new Baron.

 

[GouletPens]

I've been selling Barons for over a year, probably have 30 or 40 floating around there somewhere. All of the pieces fit well and everything, but I've had several customers complain that the clip will rotate around the pen after a time (sometimes only a week or two). The finial itself stays in fine, but the clip spins around which is real annoying if the pen is engraved, like most of mine end up being. I use some 2-part loctite epoxy. It takes an extra minute or two, but I glue in the clip and finial so I know it won't spin in the future. I do this for all of my pens with loose "spinnable" clips like Euros, slims, and barons. It's worth it in the end.

I've also never used a press block, and never even came close to screwing up any part of the baron. You just don't need it. I mean, if you're into doing extra work for no benefit, then you're welcome to it.:tongue:

 

[Chasper]

I've been selling Barons for over a year, probably have 30 or 40 floating around there somewhere. All of the pieces fit well and everything, but I've had several customers complain that the clip will rotate around the pen after a time (sometimes only a week or two). The finial itself stays in fine, but the clip spins around which is real annoying if the pen is engraved, like most of mine end up being. I use some 2-part loctite epoxy. It takes an extra minute or two, but I glue in the clip and finial so I know it won't spin in the future. I do this for all of my pens with loose "spinnable" clips like Euros, slims, and barons. It's worth it in the end.

I've also never used a press block, and never even came close to screwing up any part of the baron. You just don't need it. I mean, if you're into doing extra work for no benefit, then you're welcome to it.:tongue:

I have 50 or so Barons floating around out there somewhere and I've never used adhesive on a finial and never had a complaint about a clip rotating. You just don't need it. I mean, if you're into doing extra work for no benefit, then you're welcome to it.

 

[ed4copies]

Floating pens

I have 50 or so Barons floating around out there somewhere and I've never used adhesive on a finial and never had a complaint about a clip rotating. You just don't need it. I mean, if you're into doing extra work for no benefit, then you're welcome to it.

Now, I know I'm doing something wrong. All my barons, as well as my Jr Gents

SINK!!!​

 

[jkeithrussell]

I've had clips rotate on a number of my pens -- including this first Baron. It rotated freely as soon as I pulled it off the pen press. I knocked the finial out and re-installed with epoxy. Same deal with every other pen kit that has a loose clip. A dot of epoxy, spread thin with a q-tip, takes about 30 seconds to do and insures that the clip will stay put.

I made the mistake of using CA for this step on a bunch of pens. The result is either a smurfed finish on the pen blank or a smurfed finish on the plating, or both. Epoxy wipes right off.

I have 50 or so Barons floating around out there somewhere and I've never used adhesive on a finial and never had a complaint about a clip rotating. You just don't need it. I mean, if you're into doing extra work for no benefit, then you're welcome to it.

 

[Chasper]

Now, I know I'm doing something wrong. All my barons, as well as my Jr Gents

SINK!!!​

I don't know what you are doing wrong Ed, some of mine stink, but I haven't noticed than any of them sink.

 

[Rudy Vey]

I have 50 or so Barons floating around out there somewhere and I've never used adhesive on a finial and never had a complaint about a clip rotating. You just don't need it. I mean, if you're into doing extra work for no benefit, then you're welcome to it.

Than you are lucky! I have a lot of problems, rotating clips and the finial cap comes out. I started to glue all caps in with Loctite. No idea why this happens. In the beginning, I never had a problem, but since some 12-15 months its a mess - so bad that I think about dropping Barons of my list of pens I am making.....

 

[GouletPens]

I have 50 or so Barons floating around out there somewhere and I've never used adhesive on a finial and never had a complaint about a clip rotating. You just don't need it. I mean, if you're into doing extra work for no benefit, then you're welcome to it.

Nice jab:tongue: But I DIDN'T take this step until my customers DID complain about it being a problem. I wouldn't call that unneccessary. I would call that good customer service and good quality control. I'm willing to bet that some of your pens out there are having this problem and no one's ever contacted you about it. It's just a design issue, there's nothing you're doing wrong, or anyone else is doing wrong. The only way to absolutely minimize this is gluing, IMHO. And I think others would agree.

 

[Chasper]

Nice jab:tongue: But I DIDN'T take this step until my customers DID complain about it being a problem. I wouldn't call that unneccessary. I would call that good customer service and good quality control. I'm willing to bet that some of your pens out there are having this problem and no one's ever contacted you about it. It's just a design issue, there's nothing you're doing wrong, or anyone else is doing wrong. The only way to absolutely minimize this is gluing, IMHO. And I think others would agree.

I thought of it as more of a counter punch.

 

[jttheclockman]

I only started making pens a few months ago and noticed on slimlines the cap rotated on a few I made also. In fact the very first one I sold came back to me because of this. It only took a couple twists to open and it started doing this. I went back and punched out all the caps on the rest of the ones I made and put some CA on the cap and clip. I learned that one right away.

I read on another forum someone mention that there are certain slimlines now coming through with the cap and clip as one unit. It maybe because of what you all are talking about and maybe the thing for more kits to come this way. Has anyone else seen these slimline clips that have the caps and clips as one unit???? Not sure that is a good idea because it cuts off the flexibility of the kit.

 

[avbill]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ed4copies
Now, I know I'm doing something wrong. All my barons, as well as my Jr Gents

SINK!!!

Ed are you using the pen as a sinker to catch cat fish up in those lakes in Wisconsin. :wink:
​