Bad epoxy, now what?

[madwood]

I have always used 2 part epoxy to glue brass tubes inside the pen blank and it's usually worked well. This last batch I glued up, a total of 14 blanks, the epoxy failed while squaring the ends with my mill. Ended up pushing the tubes out the other end of the blank. 14 for 14, not good stats. Is there any way to reclaim these blanks and tubes? What would I use to clean the epoxy off the tubes? I believe, from what I have gleaned here, is that I used too much hardener and it ended up not curing properly. I would like to try CA for the tubes, but what kind would be best? Any ideas, hints, tips, direction would be GREATLY appreciated as I have enjoyed this slippery slope so far, but am snagged up for now.

Thanks to all you pros,
John

 

[PenMan1]

The tubes will clean with acetone , DNA, mineral spirits and a rifle bore brush. Re-scuff the cleaned tubes. Then run the same drill bit you used to drill back through the blank to clear the residual glue. Then the cleaned tube can be reinserted back into the blank. If you shortened the blank too much when trimming the end of the blank, add an accent strip of another material to the end of the blank.

GO BUY NEW, FRESH GLUE. If you choose to stay with epoxy. Follow the mixing and curing instructions exactly. If you choose to use CA, my choice would be medium viscosity, gap filling.

Finally, Don't ask me how I know all this

 

[Donnie Kennedy]

Finally, Don't ask me how I know all this

Awww come on Andy... you need to include just one short horror story to complement all of the good advise you gave.

 

[PenMan1]

Finally, Don't ask me how I know all this

Awww come on Andy... you need to include just one short horror story to complement all of the good advise you gave.

Donnie:
If you look at my very old posts (I think a year or two ago), you can read my account of gluing my tie and hands to the lathe while trying to impress the minister with my "fancy" vocabulary. I may soon be readmitted back in the church

 

[OOPS]

There was a post on this site back in November which detailed some of the problems using various types of glue. Problems can sometimes arise from using CA for gluing in the tubes. One, oily woods sometime react with the CA, causing the glue to cure on contact, meaning before you even have the tube completely inserted into the blank! Two, if your tube is a tight fit with the blank, the resulting friction can also give you this instant cure. I was skeptical until I actually observed it happening.

I use Sumo, which seems to have the least amount of fuss and potential for error. Some people say that the foaming action of the poly glue can cause the tube to slide out of the blank. I have heard about this happening with other poly glues, but I have not had a single instance where Sumo caused the tube to slide out while curing.

It might be worth your while to do a search on glue topics to see if you can find the entire post.

 

[soligen]

Some people say that the foaming action of the poly glue can cause the tube to slide out of the blank. I have heard about this happening with other poly glues, but I have not had a single instance where Sumo caused the tube to slide out while curing.

Better safe than sorry. All it takes is a clamp over the ends of the blank to prevent the tube from moving out. I wrap the blank with kitchen plastic wrap to prevent glue from getting on the clamp

 

[Rangertrek]

I use Gorilla glue almost exclusively to glue in the tubes. Yes, I have had one issue with the tube pushing out of the blank slightly. I solved this problem with a bit of blue painter tape on the blank end. You can also use a rubber band around the blank.

I have not had a "glue' failure with this glue. A year or so ago, I read an article in Wood Magazine regarding the strength and holding power of the various glues. Gorilla type glue was at the top with holding power for almost all materials.

 

[wiset1]

PSI sells some rubberized CA glue made specifically for pen tubes to absorb the beating it takes from rounding the blank. I've used this on about 30+ pens and have never had an issue…not to say that I won't, but to date…knock on wood. I have however shorted a blank or two as a result of the quick cure. Now I make sure the tube slides freely first and then I apply a generous amount of CA over the entire tube and the excess seems to slide past any sticking in green or oily woods. Again…SO FAR!

 

[stolicky]

My guesses - make sure the glue is fairly fresh and mix it properly.

As far as cleaning the tubes, just chuck between centers and hit it with some sandpaper. I'd say anything between 150-220 would probably work.

Good luck.

 

[airrat]

I have cleaned glue off brass by putting it on the mandrel and lightly sand it. You can clean all of them quickly that way. Multiple brass per mandrel.

 

[ToddMR]

Also the mix time is important. I found that out too. Make sure to count to like 25-35 and then it should be mixed long enough. Even with 5 minute epoxy I let it set a few hours to overnight before milling. I personally have found for me using thick ca on acrylic is better for me than epoxy. Just the results I have personally had. Epoxy works good on odd materials where you don't want a reaction with ca when inserting a tube like a blue jean blank.

 

[bradh]

I believe, from what I have gleaned here, is that I used too much hardener and it ended up not curing properly.

Keep in mind Epoxy need some heat to set properly, it needs about 68-77 degrees F to set in the normal time according to a LePage glue data sheet.
http://d362101.pro64.promodem.com//upload/english/general/e3797940-a0b2-432c-a0e6-5f16c09f6224.pdf
With the cold weather this week, I bet many shops are below this temperature. I often have set problems with epoxy glue in my cooler basement shop. If the glue does not set fully, I move the blanks over near the furnace and the extra few degrees is enough to get the glue to set.
To strip off the current epoxy glue, I have successfully used Acetone. If the glue is not set, it will be too tacky to sand or scrape off without gumming up your tools.

 

[ctubbs]

I've used CA, Sumo, various epoxies and tight bond in an attempt to find the "perfect" adhesive and am still hunting. I am beginning to believe that it just does not exist. I gave up on CA most times due to the heat limitation. If I clean the tube or spend too much time squaring the ends of the blanks, the tube can heat too much and cause the CA to fail. Tightbond just does not like brass to wood. Sumo looked like the perfect one for awhile, but its gap filling ability is a false security. Yes, it does expand to fill any gaps very well, but they are filled with something like Styrofoam. Very little to no strength in torsion. That leaves me stuck with Epoxy, no pun intended. Except for very limited times when nothing but CA will work, I use either 5 or 30 minute epoxy. I have some long wood handled Q-tips that I use to coat the inside of the blank with epoxy and then roll the tube in more of it. With the ends plugged, I then slide the tube into the blank while rotating the tube. When the tube is fully inside the blank, I then wipe the excess off the blank end and allow to setup over night. I use old cd-dvd discs for mixing trays. Over the years I have accumulated a pretty good pile of them and now found a use for a few. They are stiff and flat. The epoxy is easy to mix and roll the tube in before mounting into the blank. This works for me. YMMV.
Charles

 

[madwood]

Thanks for the abundance of replies and all the info! Someone mentioned heat in the shop and that may be part of the problem. I use a wood stove to warm my 16x24 shop and it takes forever to get it to a good working temp. If it takes that long to get warm, I would guess that it takes even longer to get the epoxy, blanks and tubes to working temp. This particular bunch of blanks were done in early December during a rather deep freeze. 10 deg outside and 50 deg in the shop. Soooo, I have to surmize that it was just too darned chilly to be gluing. God bless Central NY winters. Funny thing is, when all of this went on, I got flustered and tossed all the bad blanks over on a corner of the bench. Checked em today and guess what....glued solid..couldn't press the tubes out to try to reuse! Guess I'll trim em down for keychains or somethin.

Thanks again, guys....this place rocks!

John

 

[airborne_r6]

Something else that may have caused your problem is the pen mill you used to square the ends. I had an issue awhile ago where the guide on the pen mill was too big and so when inserted into the blank it created tons of friction and would soften the glue and the tube would come back out with the mill. Check the guide on the pen mill and the inside diameter of the tube with calipers to make sure the guide is smaller than the tube.

 

[renowb]

HaHa!:biggrin:

Finally, Don't ask me how I know all this

Awww come on Andy... you need to include just one short horror story to complement all of the good advise you gave.

Donnie:
If you look at my very old posts (I think a year or two ago), you can read my account of gluing my tie and hands to the lathe while trying to impress the minister with my "fancy" vocabulary. I may soon be readmitted back in the church