Any Idea How This Happens?

[tdsmart]

I'm relatively new here, a couple of months. Haven't posted much, but I read everyday and have learned a great deal. One of the things I've learned is that if you have a problem someone here has already had it, solved it and is generous enough to coach others through a solution or tell us how to make sure we don't encounter it again.

I am working on a blank greated by Marla that has embedded violas (little flowers for those like me that are not gardeners). It has developed what appears to be a separation along the axis of the blank. It looks like it runs behind the flowers. It wasn't there when I started turning. It wasn't there when I was half way done.

Normally I would chalk this up to a learned lesson and move on, except for 3 things. First, these are pricey little devils and I'd like to save it without the mar if at all possible. Second, I don't know how I've caused it and I don't want to repeat the error. Because, third, this is the second blank I've had a problem with. The first was a Christmas gift for my gardener wife. The marks on that one went around the blank rather than along the axis. I had micro mesh wet sanded that and thought I had a bit of water invasion, especially since it shifted down the length of the tube a little and changed shape after the pen was assembled. Wives overlook those errors and happily show off their flower pens to gardener buddies. Hence, my second attempt for gardener buddy.

Has anyone worked with these and had a similar issue? Is it possible I have tightened the centers too much and the separation developed as the material got thinnner and had less support? Is there a way to fix this beyond putting it under the pen clip? I still have the bottom to turn and, at least as of now, it hasn't got any marks on it.

Thanks, tom.

 

[Chasper]

You are referring to the whitish line that starts on the left side of the photo, runs under the purple petal and ends in a point a little beyond the petal? It looks like a stem. Are you sure it wasn't there when you started? I've turned a few of these and as I remember additional details pop out when they are buffed.

Does it appear that the acrylic has detached and slid around the tube? I've had that happened to labels that I've stuck on tubes and then poured resin around.

The Marla violas I turned didn't have any problems. I did use a skew and turned gently all the way down.

 

[RickLong]

Nice looking blank.... I have not turned one of these flower blanks by Maria but I'm assuming this is a flower casted in PR. If so, maybe a hairline crack that does not come all the way through. This can happen when pressing your fittings in to tight and/or pressing your bushing.

For fixing it, I do not have an answer except what you mentioned hiding it under the clip. There are some very talented pen turns and/or pen makers on this bbs. I will be interested in hearing a solution too.

Good Luck!

Rick

 

[1080Wayne]

I'm relatively new here, a couple of months. Haven't posted much, but I read everyday and have learned a great deal. One of the things I've learned is that if you have a problem someone here has already had it, solved it and is generous enough to coach others through a solution or tell us how to make sure we don't encounter it again.

I am working on a blank greated by Marla that has embedded violas (little flowers for those like me that are not gardeners). It has developed what appears to be a separation along the axis of the blank. It looks like it runs behind the flowers. It wasn't there when I started turning. It wasn't there when I was half way done.

Has anyone worked with these and had a similar issue? Is it possible I have tightened the centers too much and the separation developed as the material got thinnner and had less support? Is there a way to fix this beyond putting it under the pen clip? I still have the bottom to turn and, at least as of now, it hasn't got any marks on it.

Thanks, tom.

Not sure about the axial separation , but that at the ends could be from what you suggest or from too much pressure applied during assembly . I try to seal the blank ends with thin CA before turning and again before assembly , and make extra sure that the tubes are glue free before (gentle) assembly . Those are my snakeskin lessons , but I suspect they would also apply to Marla`s blanks . You can try dipping the separated end in thin CA , but don`t expect miracles .

 

[tdsmart]

You are referring to the whitish line that starts on the left side of the photo, runs under the purple petal and ends in a point a little beyond the petal? It looks like a stem. Are you sure it wasn't there when you started? I've turned a few of these and as I remember additional details pop out when they are buffed.

Does it appear that the acrylic has detached and slid around the tube? I've had that happened to labels that I've stuck on tubes and then poured resin around.

The Marla violas I turned didn't have any problems. I did use a skew and turned gently all the way down.

Yes, the long white line on the mounted blank and the circular whitish lines on the completed pen. At fisrt I thought (hoped) it was a stem, but it clearly is not. I looked this over pretty closely before beginning given I had an earlier issue and it was not there. Looking at the end of the blank, I cannot see any separation where it meets the tube.

 

[tdsmart]

Not sure about the axial separation , but that at the ends could be from what you suggest or from too much pressure applied during assembly . I try to seal the blank ends with thin CA before turning and again before assembly , and make extra sure that the tubes are glue free before (gentle) assembly . Those are my snakeskin lessons , but I suspect they would also apply to Marla`s blanks . You can try dipping the separated end in thin CA , but don`t expect miracles .

Wayne, thanks. The CA before turning and then before assembly sounds like a really solid suggestion. I will do that before beginning on the second barrel. tom

 

[Boz]

I do not know Marla but perhaps you can contact her and see what she says. Before I tried a homemade fix I would see if this has happened before and she may have a fix. I have heard that sometimes you can recast the blank.

 

[Jim Burr]

Just a thought and it may not of happened in this case, but heat can cause a separation in areas also. Not so much heat while turning, but leaving it in a hot place. This happened to me on a color change blank.

 

[Curly]

She is out at the moment but I will let her know this is being discussed.

Tom are you using a disc sander on the blanks to square the ends or using a barrel trimmer? Barrel trimmers can catch and cause a split (first picture) and if the catch is bigger, chunks to come off. The end separation can come from a barrel trimmer but it is more likely from the centres as you mentioned or when pressing in the components. The first picture looks like a split starting and the second from separation. Recasting won't help the split or separation but the thin CA mentioned might help with the ends but not with the split.

 

[tdsmart]

Pete, thank you. I'm sure it is something I have done wrong.

I did not have to sand or use a barrel trimmer on the ends because the blanks were cut to size and squared off when I got them. I cannot see any splits only what appears to be this separation. I took really light cuts with this and didn't have any chunking.

 

[Crickett]

Hi Tom, the first blank does look like a crack in the resin, I'm using PR (polyester resin). As for the separation, there are many reasons why this could happen such as a barrel trimmer or when the pen is assembled and the components aren't square to the pen before assembly, although you said you took light cuts, someone may push too hard when turnings and the resin heats up and "stretches" for lack of a better way to describe.

Since you've had this happen to two blanks PM me your address. I'm out of flowers but I'll try and make this up to you.

 

[seamus7227]

Tom, if there is any way you can get some thin CA in there from the side you should try that. If you can, then it could potentially rectify your problem. At this point you dont have much to lose. If it doesnt work, the blank wont look any worse. Marla and Pete are both correct in that you definitely want to turn these blanks with very sharp tools and light cuts so as to not heat up that resin. With that being said, you also do not want a hot light bulb from your lathe beaming down on it either. Pamper that baby as best you can, and be sure and chamfer the inside of the tube before turning and also before assembly. That will ease the pressure that will be exerted on the brass tube when you press in the components. Hope this helps in some way. Dont lose hope, we all have failures at some point in time or another.

 

[Dai Sensei]

How hot did you get the blanks whilst turning/sanding?

You can often get delamination between the resin and what is cast as you get thin and the resin gets hot and flexes.

 

[tdsmart]

Marla, thanks very much for joining this conversation. Again, I'm sure it is something I have done to these great blanks. I have turned several of your feather blanks and did not have any issues. I have sent you a message.

Thanks to everyone else for their thoughts on this. The more I think about it the more I think the centers may have been just a bit too tight and caused a slight flex as the blank got thinner. I had not sanded this at all yet, so no heat build up there. I did have a light on it and that may have contributed. Seamus, I will try your CA suggestion and see what success I have there.

Thanks again all, especially to Marla.

tom

 

[reddwil]

Tom,

As others have stated, try sealing the end with Thin CA before turning after you have squared the ends. I had this happen on a couple of the Ironclad pens I have made. In my case it appeared after I was finished polishing. I'm not sure if was from heat being generated or water from the wet sanding. I started sealing the ends and it seemed to resolved the issue.

 

[bruce119]

I breezed through the post. I have seen this many times it is separation of the (PR) Polyester Resin from the tube. This is almost certainly a fatal flaw that can not be saved.

The most likely cause is that you over tighten your bushings during turning squeezing the blank flexing either the PR or the tube. Be careful and slow when turning DO NOT make your bushings real tight. If you get even a small catch you can cause your bushing to tighten and the damage is done. Also when pressing in your parts make sure they are not real tight. If your parts are real tight with a blank like this you mite be better off grinding just a little off your parts so they fit easier and glue them in.

Good Luck keep at,

 

[tdsmart]

Just to bring this episode full circle, I was not able to repair the damage to the blank, other than hide it under the clip. That worked well enough to complete the pen.

But the real reason for this post is to thank Marla, who crafted the blank. She said she would "make this up to you" and today I received a box from her with 3 sets of Jr blanks. She certainly did not have to do that, as I'm sure the problem is something I had caused.

Marla, thanks very much!

Tom

 

[Crickett]

Just to bring this episode full circle, I was not able to repair the damage to the blank, other than hide it under the clip. That worked well enough to complete the pen.

But the real reason for this post is to thank Marla, who crafted the blank. She said she would "make this up to you" and today I received a box from her with 3 sets of Jr blanks. She certainly did not have to do that, as I'm sure the problem is something I had caused.

Marla, thanks very much!

Tom

Hi Tom,

Glad to hear the box arrived and I look forward to seeing pictures of the pens you make from them.