Another Finishing Question - Epoxy

[C_Ludwigsen]

I'm posting this in a new thread instead of as part of DC's "Finishing 101" thread since he did not address epoxy.

I'm currently trying out various lacquers and such for my pen finishes. But came across the 'System 3 Epoxy' product listed at Craft Supplies USA. My boss is also building a boat and suggested another product called 'West Epoxy'. Does anyone have experience with these finishing products or with using epoxy as a pen finish in general?

I'm interested in knowing how durable it might be as well as how clear it would look when cured. If you've used it, what application suggestions would you recommend?

I appreciate the help.

Chuck

 

[Mac In Oak Ridge]

I believe you will find that West Brothers makes the System 3 epoxy. I could be wrong. Do a web search for West Brothers and you should find their web site.
Mac

 

[NAH]

I'm only slightly familier with the System 3 products, but from what I know of them they seem to be more of an adhesive company. My brother has been building a boat using their product, but it was in fiberglass layup, and the epoxy looked like peanut butter. I don't know how much of the coloration and consitancy came from the filler, but I know that even with out it the product had at least some yellow in it. I've also seen that they make CA glue, but I don't know of any finishing product from them. Hope that helps.
NAH

 

[Guest]

I recall having a conversatiion with Jason at Woodturningz about the system 3 method.I remember him saying he was pleased with it.
You might want to ask him about it when you place an order.

 

[DCBluesman]

Ahh...epoxy as a finish. There are some potential difficulties, as you might imagine.

First, mixing epoxy resin and hardener requires some pretty exacting standards or else the end result will not cure properly.

After mixing, the product is a bit difficult to apply to the degree of surface leveling that we usually demand. The exterior begins setting up fairly quickly and the total cure time for most epoxies is 24-72 hours.

Discoloration is a concern. Most epoxy resins have a slight amber color and virtually all hardeners will darken wood.

Epoxy bonds poorly to acrylics, PVC and polycarbonate. Trial and error is the only way to know if you will have this problem.

Clean up is a pain in the neck! Cleaning up cured epoxy requires the use of methylene chloride, which OSHA has labeled as being carcinogenic. Uncured epoxy resins and hardeners can be cleaned up with ketones, alcohols, or lacquer thinner. White vinegar will clean up unmixed resin components.

Hope this answers your questions.

 

[low_48]

Chuck,
I've used West Epoxy for gluing up exterior doors. The comment made about the peanut butter consistantcy was probably caused by fillers added to the epoxy. They sell micro ballons and other fibers that increase the filling ability of the epoxy. It was either that or air whipped into the epoxy when mixed. You would have to mix the material very carefully and maybe heat it with a tourch while turning the pen very slowly to lower the viscosity and let the bubbles out. I have been thinking about epoxy for a finish as well. I remember an article written about bowls turned by Malthrop (spelling?) in Georgia. He had made a special machine that turned at 4 rpm and held several bowls by face plates. He would put several bowls on the machine and then coat them with epoxy. The machine would be turned on and would spin at 4 rpm till the epoxy set. No runs, no drips, no errors. Maybe a guy could use a small gear motor and run a belt to the outboard handwheel that could turn the lathe at that 4 rpm? Just some thoughts.

Rich

 

[C_Ludwigsen]

Wow! Drew, that would be a VERY hard finish. If I can manage a decent application method, that just might be the trick as an alternative to CA. I'll see if anyone in our club has some and is willing to let me test a pen with it in exchange for the pen.

I appreciate everyone's contribution to this. It is obvious that any finish other than CA will span days to get the desired result. And taking your time never hurts.

I'll report in when I have some results.

 

[wayneis]

I bought a special clear epoxy that a pool que company uses on all of their ques but I have not got around to trying it. One of these days when I get the time to try it out I post what I think of it. The company swears by it and if you think of the hard use pool sticks go through it must be pretty good stuff. Both agents are clear, other opoxy's I've used the hardner had a yellow tint. We'll see.

Wayne

 

[C_Ludwigsen]

Sounds excellent, Wayne. Shoot the product name to us when you can.

 

[low_48]

I'm bringing this discussion back because I did my first pen with epoxy coating. I know, where's the picture? SWMBO is visiting her Father in CA and so is the digital camera. Pictures will follow next week.

I am very impressed with the finish!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Here's how I did it. I used System 3, 5 minute epoxy. I mixed to the normal 50/50 epoxy/catalyst mixture. I slowly stirred to limit air bubbles and then let it sit for 2 minutes. A couple of big bubbles came to the surface and I popped them. I then used a 1/8 thick rubber squeegie(bought them at the auto paint store, they are used to squeegie off water as you wet sand a car)and rolled off about a 3/16" bead on the edge of the squeegie. I ran the lathe at 340RPM and brought the bead of epoxy to the front side of the pen. I kept the squeegie off the pen and a beautiful coat of epoxy rolled on. I reloaded the squeegie and rolled on a coat on the other half of the pen. I let the lathe run for 2 minutes and then looked at the finish. It had soaked into one void so I added a drop of epoxy with a toothpick. The epoxy was starting to set. I let the lathe run for a total of 10 minutes at 340 RPM. After 3 hours I sanded and polished. I think it could have set a little longer. At polish speed it felt a little soft. I started with 320 and worked to 12000 and then to the Beal Buff for the shine. Looks like a winner for that special pen when you have a little time. Only one small problem, I had two small white dots the size of a pin point. These were over a couple of small voids where the epoxy had soaked in. No bubble problems.

Long post, no pictures, but I was excited to get the information on the site.

Rich

Originally posted by C_Ludwigsen
<br />Wow! Drew, that would be a VERY hard finish. If I can manage a decent application method, that just might be the trick as an alternative to CA. I'll see if anyone in our club has some and is willing to let me test a pen with it in exchange for the pen.

I appreciate everyone's contribution to this. It is obvious that any finish other than CA will span days to get the desired result. And taking your time never hurts.

I'll report in when I have some results.

 

[C_Ludwigsen]

Fantastic, Rich. I appreciate you running the tests. I can't wait to see the picture of the pen. Oh, and could you post a pic of the squeegee you are talking about? Thank you very much.

Chuck