Is it always this difficult?

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cestmoi

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I really want to do is take my lathe, my chisels, and everything else and stomp on them. :wink: However, I'll ask for advice instead. I'm 2 months into pen turning and I don't feel like I'm improving. I've turned many types of wood and some acrylics, but it seems like very few turn out perfectly. It's really frustrating, especially since I've seen several posts recently of people showing pics of their very first pen or their son's first pen and they appear to be perfect. When turning acrylic, I inevitably have gouge marks (see photo). The same sometimes happens with wood or when sanding the turned wood. I'm constantly sharpening my chisels, though I don't have a special jig for this. I've tried raising/lowering my tool rest. I've tried using the roughing gouge, versa chisel, and carbon tip pen pro. I really mess things up when I use the skew. Is this normal or am I just not a "natural" at turning? Any advice?
 
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cestmoi

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I forgot to include the pic of the gouged acrylic. Here it is.
 

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nativewooder

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Instant gratification does not work well in the world of woodturning. For about twenty dollars (+ -) you can purchase a new book designed for aspiring woodturners. Make sure you pay attention to the parts on safety and on sharpening. It only takes about 10,000 hours at the lathe to be considered an "expert".
 

KenV

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Leslie -- The pitting that I am seeing comes with brittle acrylics (some chips more than others) and taking too large a cut than the material can handle. I hear the "bzzzz" when it is happening.

Causes -- tool edge is not sharp, feed rate of moving the tool is a bit too fast for the material and the bevel angle on the tool, and/or the material being removed is very brittle.

I do not get the "bzzzz" and the pits when the tools is sharp and the acrylic shavings are winding around the blank. (I use an old toothbrush to clean off those wound on strips of swarf).

Have a turning club anywhere close??
 

Ed McDonnell

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Leslie - It could be something really simple that is causing you problems, but it is hard to diagnose remotely. There are a lot of AAW (American Association of Woodturners) chapters in your state. Here's a link to one in Pittsburgh.

http://www.turnersanonymous.org/

If that's not convenient, you can check the chapter listings on the AAW website to see if there is one that meets closer to you.

Chapter Search - American Association of Woodturners

An experienced turner could probably give you some solid suggestions to solve your problems after checking your tools and watching you turn for a bit. Most AAW chapters are loaded with experienced turners that are eager to help people improve their turning skills. Usually at little or no cost.

Good luck.

Ed
 

terry q

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A couple things I did wrong when I first started turning pens. I was very heavy handed. I didn't think I was but as I gained experience I realized that it was a problem. I also tightened the tail stock and the brass nut too much. As a result it bowed the mandrel and produced a pen that was not cylindrical. Check to see if your mandrel is bowed by turning the lathe on at a low speed and touch the middle of the mandrel with a pencil. A straight mandrel will produce a pencil mark completely around the mandrel. If you only get a tick of a pencil mark your mandrel is not straight. Give it a wack with a tool handle on the high spot and test it again. Repeat until the mandrel is straight.
 

Hendu3270

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There could be any of a number of things causing this. Like others have said, acrylics can be brittle, some more so than others. I had results similar to this when I had my basic set of tools. I was using a spindle gouge, and if I held it parallel to the floor and just straight in, it would do this often. I had to start experimenting with how my tools addressed the work piece. I found rotating the tool up on its edge and making a slicing cut worked MUCH better. At some point I decided to move to a round carbide cutting tool and made my own. It does leaps and bounds better than the spindle gouge and I still rotate that tool so it makes nice slicing cuts as well. I should probably post a little 30 second video to explain what I'm talking about. Don't get too discouraged though. It takes experience to get better, and you can't rush it.
 

thewishman

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Try posting a thread here asking for a mentor to show you how to turn a pen. I asked for someone within an hour of Columbus, Ohio, and got two volunteers. That made my learning curve much easier and I made two friends.:)
 

Dan Masshardt

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Why do so many different materials if you are not happy?

Buy 5 or 10 of the same blank (inexpensive ones. :) and get it how you want before moving on.

I personally find that I like different tool test heights for different tools. But it's hard to master several different tools at the same time.

There are very few tool marks that won't sand out Only big chunks.

Make sure you're sanding with the grain with the lathe off after each grit. And never skip grits.

You'll get it.
 

Hendu3270

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Cestmoi,

I'm in the process of uploading a very crude video to YouTube that explains what I said earlier in the thread.

Also, like Dan said, pick one material and stick with it for awhile. Preferably wood blanks as they are more forgiving than acrylic, (and less expensive). You can learn what works well and what seems to cut nicer on wood blanks then apply that to the acrylic blanks.
 

ed4copies

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Have I ever mentioned that on my first lesson, I broke the handle off the tool??

THAT is being a "natural"!!!

At the time there was no internet "training", so I ruined a whole lot of blanks. BUT, from time to time, I got RIBBONS!!! I had read that was GOOD!!! So, I started to pay attention when the ribbons came off---WHAT was I DOING?? THAT must be RIGHT!!

Yes, it is much easier if you can find a teacher---but if not, TEACH yourself by watching what you are doing RIGHT!!! Then repeat!

I will say one cause of acrylic "chunking" is vibration. So, remember to cut parallel to the mandrel, putting pressure toward the head or tailstock---BUT, if the piece is vibrating---find out why and stop it!!

Good luck---there are several videos on Exotic Blanks that might help---look here:
Exotic Blanks :: How To Videos
 

cestmoi

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Thanks, everyone, for all the tips and encouragement.

Chris, the video was extremely helpful! Thanks for making that! I thought I was doing something wrong with acrylics because it takes me soooo long to turn it. However, based on your video, I guess that's just the way it is with acrylic. My carbide tipped pen pro/pen wizard/whatever is square, but I'll have to give it another try.

Ken V: I saw a YouTube video that said you need to turn acrylics really fast. I've been turning acrylic at 1400-1600. I also think that I need to master the art of sharpening.

Ed, Chris (wishman) and Don: I joined a local turners group and the meetings have been extremely informative and helpful. There are one or two guys in the group who do mostly pens. I'll have to hit them up for a tutorial and also bring my tools to the next meeting so someone can tell me if they are truly sharp.

Dan: I've been trying different woods and acrylics mostly because it's fun and interesting. I like to see how the woods look when finished and I love all the color options of acrylics.

Terry Q: I am making my cuts too aggressive with acrylics. I actually thought I needed to since (as a woman) I probably don't have as much upper body strength as all the male turners and I figured you all used more arm power when turning. That was dumb, I guess. I also think I managed to bow my mandrel a bit.

David: I have watched a number of videos, including Capt. Eddie, and they certainly are helpful.

Ed B: Now I don't feel so bad. I have not yet broken a handle.
 

Jim Burr

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It is an Always occurrence that a little chip-out happens on acrylic. Ever hear of an athlete that's "In the zone"?...well that's what it takes to do acrylic. Alumilite (spell check) is a bit more forgiving and smoother to cut. Looks like you had some really nice work up to the "ouch" point...keep it up, could be a soft spot in the resin. I find, and this is not a rule by any stretch of any imagination, but slow is good. Get a few more blanks and have at it!!
 

Smitty37

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I really want to do is take my lathe, my chisels, and everything else and stomp on them. :wink: However, I'll ask for advice instead. I'm 2 months into pen turning and I don't feel like I'm improving. I've turned many types of wood and some acrylics, but it seems like very few turn out perfectly. It's really frustrating, especially since I've seen several posts recently of people showing pics of their very first pen or their son's first pen and they appear to be perfect. When turning acrylic, I inevitably have gouge marks (see photo). The same sometimes happens with wood or when sanding the turned wood. I'm constantly sharpening my chisels, though I don't have a special jig for this. I've tried raising/lowering my tool rest. I've tried using the roughing gouge, versa chisel, and carbon tip pen pro. I really mess things up when I use the skew. Is this normal or am I just not a "natural" at turning? Any advice?
It sounds to me like: You are being a little too heavy handed...let the tool do the work.



Also, If you don't have a special jig you could easily be puting the wrong cutting angle on the chisels which will give you all sorts of grief and if you aren't getting the cutting angle the same every time it will change the the approach and probably the height of the tool rest needed.
 

cestmoi

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I think you hit the nail on the head, Smitty. I'm going to have to get a sharpening jig or figure out how to make one like Chris showed in his video.

Chris: After watching the video again, I see that I may be holding my carbide pen pro tool upside down. I'm sure I'll laugh about that someday.
 

Hendu3270

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I think you hit the nail on the head, Smitty. I'm going to have to get a sharpening jig or figure out how to make one like Chris showed in his video.

Chris: After watching the video again, I see that I may be holding my carbide pen pro tool upside down. I'm sure I'll laugh about that someday.

ooh that's not good. Start laughing now and go ahead and flip it over. Also, I had my rest a little higher than I should have in the video. practice practice practice. There's no reason to get in a hurry, just take your time and consider it a relaxation session. Bad things happen when you get in a hurry on the lathe.
 

southernclay

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Chris dang good job for an improve video, I like that homemade sharpening system.

cestmoi, looks of awesome advice on the thread, good for you for asking and searching rather than getting ticked and quitting. I've found pen making to be both miserable and pure ecstasy....at times within a few minutes of each other. The IAP is an amazing place though so keeping coming back, looking on youtube, going to meetings, finding mentors that give their time selflessly etc. And practice, practice, practice......and have fun!

Shoot me a PM with your address, I've got a good bit of excess blanks that are pretty plain and a few extra acrylic, I won't miss a small box full, you can throw em on the lathe and just practice cuts on them worse case. It'll be Tuesday or so before I can send them out.

Have a great Easter and don't forget to have fun with it!
 

TurnaPen

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Don't get frustrated, I too have seen what many first timers here have produced, they put me to shame.
It took me well nigh on two years before I ever got the CA finish good enough!! and many blow outs etc, before learning the finer skills.
Just be patient and keep at it, you will improve, and keep your first pens, you can look back in some years and see where you have progressed from. Amos:)
 

low_48

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Peoria, IL, USA.
I suggest you stop turning pens, and start turning wood. Get some firewood, go to a cabinet shop and buy some scrap, or get some poplar dowels at Menards. Now watch the videos and make some chips. When you can turn smooth cylinders, with maybe the shape you want on pens, then go back to pen blanks. Lots of other good tips, but don't fixate on getting final projects until you learn to turn.
 

SDB777

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Not saying this is the 'absolute', but a lot of 'firsts' are not really firsts(if you know what I mean).

Have you had the opportunity to make it to a turner meeting in your area? Preferably one that might have a 'demo'.... I'm a 'see it done' person, not a 'read about it being done' person. So books are nice to look at...



Scott (practice makes shavings) B
 

stonepecker

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Everything gets better with time and pratice. This is one hobby that you don't rush in anyway. Take the time to learn.....but also, take the time to enjoy. The thrill of seeing the pen take shape.....the colors within the blank comming to the surface.... the reward of all the pieces comming together and being able to say "I made that."
 

rblakemore

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Every time

I feel some amount of frustration with every pen!! It seems I constantly create new lessons learned and have to relearn old ones. Go slow and make sure your tools are sharp!! And, this piece looks an inlace acrylester, very hard to work with and very chippy!!! My wife and I turn and we have more trouble with this material than any other. I have had inlace blow out on the drill press, chip out completely on the lathe, and chip out completely on a buffer. Attached is one inlace pen that needed two lower pieces to complete. It has great color though and if you can complete the pen it is worth it.
 

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