Advise for the Newbee(s)

[snowb46]

I've been looking in the Penn State Ind catalog, and have yet to turn a pen as many of you already know.

I'm interested in other sources for pen blanks if there are any.

I'm also interested in your opinion(s), as to what you recommend for pen kits for first timers. I'm looking for the following:

1. Inexpensive (less than $5 each)
2. Something that won't fall apart after the first use. (I realize, that my craftsmanship may play a part in that, but lets say that won't be the case.) I guess the thing is: I'M NOT LOOKING FOR GARBAGE)
3. Not really interested in pencil or fountain pens at this time, just twist or click pens.

 

[JimB]

Any of the vendors who sell kits also sell blanks - CSUSA, Woodcraft, Rockler and also check the vendors right here on IAP.

As far as kits under $5 I think you are limited to slims and comforts or finding something a bit more expensive on sale or in a group buy. Some Cigars are not too expensive.

 

[hilltopper46]

Under $5? The chrome Executive from PSI is $4.15 on WoodNWhimsies web site (http://www.woodnwhimsies.com/Executive.html). It's a solid little pen with a single barrel.

They also have a nice selection of blanks of various types. And, they are great people to deal with.

 

[Pens By Scott]

As Jim mentioned, Blanks are readily available, as well as the vendors mentioned, there are also non vendor members that often post here, blank exchanges, odds for trade, etc. Another way is eBay, may end up paying a little more this way, but it's a place to start.

Also with Blanks, are you looking for wood, acrylic, stone, trustone... I'd suggest beginning with wood, one I like which I find easy to turn is Bethlehem Olive Wood (BOW) or Cherry.

As for kits, slimlines are I believe is where most of us start. They are cheaper, easy to make, usually work well and can be used to make more advance pens (search on Pen making Challenge on the forums here). As you get more comfortable, you can make your own center bands, styles, and even blanks, all of which can be based upon the Slimline.

Another consideration, a single barrel pen can be easier, and usually takes less time to set up, and turn. The Executive Pens at PSI was where I moved to after slimlines.

Hope this helps.

 

[j_b_fischer]

Starter Kits

I'd suggest starting with single barrel pens at first. They are more straight forward and will allow you to concentrate on skill building exercises like turning, sanding, and finishing.

Woodcraft sells the Atlas pen that I think would be a good starter. Penn State sells the same pen as the Polaris (and other sites use different names). Different finishes and options (like a click version, instead of twist) are available for prices from the $6-ish ranges, up to the $11-ish range.

Oh ... figure on buying 6 or 8 pens that you will give/throw away. That should get you some practice. Also, buy a package of replacement (extra) tubes. This way you can practice turning and finsihing, and if it doesn't turnout to your satisfaction, you've only invested in a brass tube.

Also, go to Harbor Freight. For about $8 you can get a set of long nose punches that are ideal for taking pens apart. This again gives you the option of completing a pen, and if you change your mind, take it apart, throw away the tube (or turn off the wood and re-use the tube) and keep practicing.

Let us know how your progressing ... and I expect to see some examples of your work at our next meeting.

 

[soligen]

Unless you want to make "Shop Pens" for practice, I recommend avoiding the really inexpensive kits like the PSI fun lines and CSUSA apprentice. I've had consistent transmission issues with these. The way I look at it, if I'm spending hours of my time making a pen, it deserves better then the lowest end hardware. 3 – 4 hours making it perfect as I can, then a $2 kit – just doesn't seem right to me.

A few inexpensive kits for learning are a good thing, but I made the mistake of buying the 30 pack fun line kit from PSI. After I made a handful, I wanted to move to nicer kits but I had all these fun line kits (and still do – you see a couple each meeting on the raffle table until gone.)

In the 7mm (cross refill) format, I like the Euro kits from Woodcraft (or Berea), but you may pay a little more than $5. I think on sale Woodcraft had them for $5 ish. I don't know Berea's pricing. I particularly like the black TI euro, but looks like that is Woodcraft only. I find these kits have a noticeably better transmission that the PSI kits I have, and the refills write a little nicer.

Note that the Euros require you to mount the center band on a tennon. This makes it a more advanced kit, however this is one of those "required skills" you need to develop anyway. As Jim suggests, do a couple easier kits first, but then my opinion is to go for a challenge - that's how you learn. When you decide to try a euro, do not try the Blank IT version first, it is a little more advanced than the others because the center band is in multiple pieces.

PSI has the Designer line, which looks like a Euro, but now they sell the Designer NT which sounds good because the Center Band does not require a tennon. However IMO having the band attached is a much better way to go – I think you can get a better fit, and it won't get lost when changing refills.

Boy-o-boy, I'm getting long winded. So, here is my take on difficulty progression easiest to hardest. You don't need to tackle these in this order (I didn't), and you could easily debate the order, so I also list the challenge I see in these.

1: Single Tube Sierra/diplomat (not finial activated). It has easy assembly and non critical tube lengths. Note there is a potential design flaw in these kits (if you search the IAP you can learn more). The flaw is not hard to correct, but I would not worry about it as a beginner for pens not for sale, as if usually doesn't cause an issue. If you want to sell these, investigate it further.

2: Slimline. More assembly is required, but tube length not critical. Still an easy pen.

3: Roller ball kits. Tube length is not critical. Need to need to properly align grain patterns in assembly

4: Pens requiring a tennon like the Euro. Note the Euro tube lengths are not critical.

5: Tube length critical kits. Cigar, some finial activated kits (I think), click pens

6: Fountain Pens, as they usually require nib tuning.

I would recommend that you progress to get comfortable with kits where the tube length is critical and kits requiring a tennon before you buy any volume of kits. This way you will know enough about what you like.

Disclaimer: Note to experienced people in the IAP. If you want to debate the 1 – 6 rankings, or my opinions, please open another thread. This is my guide for the MI newbies and is my opinion. I'd be happy to have a respectful debate in another thread.

 

[snowb46]

Wow guys, a lot of great advise. Many things I didn't consider or think about. But that is why I posted the question. I really appreciate the help.

I got some CA glue ordered from that vendor today. Also ordered some sandpaper. Here is a link to a company I use quite often for sandpaper. I usually order paper for a belt sander and oscillating spindle sander I have through these guys. They have it all. They have a 20 LB bargain box of end rolls there for wood turner in mind. 1/2" to 4" wide, 100 grit and finer (probably up to 600)

I've also been working on a bench for my Christmas Gift (a lathe) for the past couple of days. I just about got the top together. I've been shopping around for a set of chisels, man a person can sink a fortune into those. I'm probably going to stay on the cheap side for now and just get started and worry about quality at a later time.

Again, thanks for the input

 

[snowb46]

Any of the vendors who sell kits also sell blanks - CSUSA, Woodcraft, Rockler and also check the vendors right here on IAP.

As far as kits under $5 I think you are limited to slims and comforts or finding something a bit more expensive on sale or in a group buy. Some Cigars are not too expensive.

Jim, I love your avatar.

 

[JimB]

Any of the vendors who sell kits also sell blanks - CSUSA, Woodcraft, Rockler and also check the vendors right here on IAP.

As far as kits under $5 I think you are limited to slims and comforts or finding something a bit more expensive on sale or in a group buy. Some Cigars are not too expensive.

Jim, I love your avatar.

Thanks. My wife actually picked it.

 

[LandfillLumber]

Hello, I'm a source of pen blanks you will have to stop over and check out what I have(lots of nice stuff).Let me know,Thanks,Victor

 

[workinforwood]

Boy...if only I knew then what I know now! I guess I could right a book about getting started...spend your money once, that's a good idea. I'll let you decide on what pen you want to make. I'll suggest that you pick a pen kit before you buy any supplies, other than a piece of wood or acrylic..you can buy that. The thing that I feel I wasted the most money on when I started turning is mandrels. Now I can't remember even the last time I used one. They suck if you ask me. They bend, they get burrs on them, or glue stuck to them, the bushings glued on, out of round, you name it, the mandrel has been involved. You have a mandrel problem, then you go buy a new one and it all starts over. No mandrels..don't waste your money. You buy a 60 degree live center and dead center. You have to get those mandrel or not. Then once you pick a kit, you go to penturnersproducts.com and you buy center bushings for that kit. You spin one pen barrel at a time. It's too easy..you just stick the bushing in each end of the pen, drive the centers into the ends of his bushings and start spinning. You might wanna hurry with that pen kit and bushing decision before John runs out of stock..he had a car accident and it might be awhile before he can make new inventory.

 

[dhammis]

I started turning pens early this year and I'll pass along what I've picked up. I'm fond of the Sierra/Wall Street kits to make, as they are simple, but they aren't as cheap to learn on as slims. I bought the PSI lathe and starter kit from them so I had a bunch of blanks and kits to work with and had great success with that process. Having run out of my initial supply of slims and still having friends, family and others that wanted them I picked up some kits from Smitty on here. The kits were very inexpensive and still look nice and I use them for kits that I'm giving away. If I'm making something to sell then I will often steer customers towards a better quality kit, but I'd hate to learn on a more expensive kit that has a higher chance of getting ruined than not. I tried Euros early on and had a whole mess of trouble with them. I probably had 5 oops kits as a result. At $6 or so a kit that adds up, not to mention the cost of the blanks. You blow up 5 $2 slims with wood from the bargain bin or scraps you have lying around then you don't care so much. I have a mandrel saver which has prevented the out of round issue, but I may pick up a dead center for finishing between centers as I've had issues with CA coming off of the ends when cutting the bushings off. That's a bit more advanced though and I wouldn't suggest starting out that way.

That's just my advice and that and $1.50 will get you bus fare.

 

[Padre]

I think a great place to start for both blanks and kits, as well as other turning supplies, is Exoticblanks. Ed and Dawn are great folks and have been great sponsors of this site.

 

[texaswoodworker]

Woodturningz has a large amount of pen blanks. Most of them are about a buck each.

 

[IPD_Mrs]

Jeff Powell probably has given the most sound advice, although not exactly what you were asking for. Someone once said you can cry now or you can cry later. Personally I would rather cry now on the initial price of something and smile later when things go right. WoodnWhimsies is a great place to start for your kits as mentioned above. Stick with platings that will hold up over time.

 

[Smitty37]

Many Choices

I've been looking in the Penn State Ind catalog, and have yet to turn a pen as many of you already know.

I'm interested in other sources for pen blanks if there are any.

I'm also interested in your opinion(s), as to what you recommend for pen kits for first timers. I'm looking for the following:

1. Inexpensive (less than $5 each)
2. Something that won't fall apart after the first use. (I realize, that my craftsmanship may play a part in that, but lets say that won't be the case.) I guess the thing is: I'M NOT LOOKING FOR GARBAGE)
3. Not really interested in pencil or fountain pens at this time, just twist or click pens.

You can find cigar, Jr Gentlemen 1, Gatsby, Sierra, Euro, Designer, Classic and others all for less than $5.00 if you look in the right place.

 

[soligen]

Todd, just noticed you are very close by. If you want to physically examine any kits or equipment options I have on hand, you are welcome to stop by. Drop me a PM.

Dennis

 

[monophoto]

My experiences:

1. Start with slims - the better versions, not 'funline' cheepies. They are good pens and help you get your arms around the basic skills.

2. Focus on one tube size at first. Over time, you can expand into others. But be aware that when you move to a new tube size, you need bushings, a drill bit, a barrel trimmer, etc. So take it one step at a time, and think before leaping.

3. I second Todd's suggestion about Klingspor's 20lb box of abrasives. That said, be aware that some of the material may be on a rather stiff backing that isn't as easy to work with as a flexible backing. The box I got had abrasives from 120 through 800 grit. Also, Klingspor is a European company, and the European 'P' abrasive grading system doesn't match the US system directly.

4. Buying blanks is one way to get wood. Another is to go to your local big box store. Most of the large home centers offer both maple and oak dimension lumber. Oak is a bit tricky to start with, but maple is a great newbie wood. The grain may not be a dramatic, but it can still be pretty and often has nice chatoyance. If you have a table saw, buying a length of 1x4 maple at a big box store gives you lots of blanks at a much lower per unit cost.

5. There are other sources of wood. I found a specialty shop not far from here that makes maple treenware and sells scraps as 'kindling' It's all clear hard maple in 2' lengths, in cross-sections ranging from 1/8x1 to 2x4 inches. $6 for a box - select your own. I also found a small furniture shop that sells bags of 'kindling' - $10 for a 20lb bag - and the bag that I got was all walnut. Again, it was cutoff scraps from their furniture making process, but it's great for small turning projects. My wife bought a bag of 'firewood' for the chiminea at the supermarket. It was cherry, and the ends were starting to check pretty badly, but I was still able to get a bunch of pen/seam ripper and bottle stopper blanks from one chunk.

 

[Smitty37]

Start low

Contrary to other advice you've gotten...PSI funlines and other low end kits are in fact the best place to start. They don't cost much, they assemble well, and they look good. The plating might wear off a little quicker than the costlier slims but if that is a concern to you stay with Chrome, Black Chrome, Gold TN and Black TN, they will all wear as well as much more expensive kits....the Titaniums will cost a little more but still well under $5.00. From there move to some of the other 7mm kits, there are a lot of them, comfort, designer, euro, longwood, streamline/trimline and more, all are available in several platings such as 24kt gold, copper, gun metal, chrome, black chrome. PSI has a video that will help you get started and there are a number of turorials here as well.

 

[Dave Turner]

Hi Todd,

I grew up around the north Detroit suburbs and now live near Toledo. There's lots of great advise in this thread. Some of the things I wish I had known when I was starting out (which wasn't that long ago):

• Buy a set of the Abranet sanding mesh for your wood sanding. I like these much better than sandpaper and they seem to last forever. You don't need to go finer than 400 if you're going to do a CA finish. If you want to go non-CA you can use the MicroMesh cloth sanding sheets to bring the wood to a natural shine. For CA and plastic wet sanding, the MicroMesh foam-backed 2x2" sanding pads can't be beat. These are just the right size for pen sections.
• Get a nice 40X magnifying lens to examine your surface while sanding / finishing. It really lets you see what's going on and saves you a lot of time by catching defects before you go to finer grits. Especially useful for CA finishing.
• A nice inexpensive digital caliper is mandatory. Harbor Freight is great for this type of stuff. Always measure your pen components and turn your blank down to match this measurement.
• After using a pen mill set for squaring the ends of my blanks, I now find using a disc sander to be much nicer. I wish I had bought the disc sander first. HF often has it on sale for $50, not much more than the pen mill set.
• I'm glad I tried a mandrel for pen turning. It makes turning between centers seem that much nicer.
• Definitely buy one of the carbide tip turning tools such as from Easy Wood or Pen Pro. These are a great invention and I can often turn a pen only using this one tool with minimal sanding.

As with any craft, others may have different views or recommendations. This is what works for me. Have fun!

Dave

 

[eric]

I've been looking in the Penn State Ind catalog, and have yet to turn a pen as many of you already know.

I'm interested in other sources for pen blanks if there are any.

I'm also interested in your opinion(s), as to what you recommend for pen kits for first timers. I'm looking for the following:

1. Inexpensive (less than $5 each)
2. Something that won't fall apart after the first use. (I realize, that my craftsmanship may play a part in that, but lets say that won't be the case.) I guess the thing is: I'M NOT LOOKING FOR GARBAGE)
3. Not really interested in pencil or fountain pens at this time, just twist or click pens.

ive been turning a little over a year. ive bought most of my stuff from PSI. Pen kits, tools, lathe, blanks ect... i started with the slimlines. i got bored with them quick. there good for being creative and practicing your technique. but i think the best bigginers are the one barrel pens. my favorite is the gatsby. i think PSI has a starter set that comes with three pens and free bushings and drill bit