Acrylic drilling

Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad

jennera

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2017
Messages
236
Location
Texas
Rebecca just drilled out and glued up some acrylic and was getting ready to turn it when she noticed a gap between the tube and acrylic on one end. She thinks these will now chip out when she attempts to turn them because or this gap.

Is there a way she can save the blanks? Is there a way she can drill the blanks in the future so that the holes do not become too large?

These were pens she was making for Christmas gifts for her teachers and she is pretty disappointed that she has wasted some nice acrylic pieces.


Thanks,
Jennifer
 
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad

Charlie_W

Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2011
Messages
5,918
Location
Sterling, VA USA
First, I would mix some epoxy and use a toothpick to carefully fill the area.
After curing overnight, give them a go. If the gap was too wide and the acrylic ends up being too thin when turned, there is not that can be done at that point.
If these were for a Sierra style pen, she could use the Sierra Vista or Woodcrafts Wallstreet III. These use the exact same tube. Inside diameter and length. Only difference is that the outside diameter doesn't get turned as small. This can be a good save for this style of pen.

Is she leaving the acrylic long while drilling and then trimming to length to help eliminate break out? When doing this, do not drill all the through the blank.

Good luck!
 

ed4copies

Local Chapter Manager
Joined
Mar 25, 2005
Messages
24,527
Location
Racine, WI, USA.
Possibly resort to an "oops" ring.

Use a contrasting color, turn off the end of the blank to the tube (with a parting tool) and replace with the contrasting piece (it works best if you do this on both ends to make it look like you planned it that way). The resulting pen is more expensive, because it is more complex.

That's my story and I have stuck to it for 20 years--sold some nice pens that way!!

Good turning!!
Ed
 

jennera

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2017
Messages
236
Location
Texas
These are for Executive kits. I do not have a photo but the gap is big enough that she would turn all the material down to the bushings and have a clear spot on one end of the pen. She will set these aside and try to use them on a different kit that uses thicker bushings.

Her dad drilled these out for her as we are having some problems with the drill press wobbling but I think he figured out it is the clamp she is using. She will probably go back to using a wooden clamp like Ed shows in his video to hold the blank while she drills it out. Or start using the lathe to drill them. Brian says the Rockler vise is not holding everything tight anymore and the blanks were shaking as he bit drilled deeper into the blank.

Still learning!

Thanks for all the help!
 

jennera

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2017
Messages
236
Location
Texas
creid video that you post is great.

Yes, it is a great video! Thanks!

Now she thinks she will remove the tubes (not sure how) and drill them out for a larger tube like a 10 mm. She checked a couple of the other 3/8" kits she has but they aren't thick enough or the tubes need to be longer.

Hopefully, she can save the tubes and the blanks. Either way, extra tubes are on my list for our next order.

Thanks, again!
 

eharri446

Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2016
Messages
1,036
Location
Marietta, GA
You might want to get a Nova G3 chuck and a set of their Pen Plus jaws and start drilling on the lathe.

I started out trying to use a drill press and even with a fairly expensive drilling jig I still had problems drilling my tubes. Also, if she is seeing what appears to be a gap between the tube and the blank, she might want to switch using 5 minute epoxy as it fills gaps better.
 

jennera

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2017
Messages
236
Location
Texas
You might want to get a Nova G3 chuck and a set of their Pen Plus jaws and start drilling on the lathe.

I started out trying to use a drill press and even with a fairly expensive drilling jig I still had problems drilling my tubes. Also, if she is seeing what appears to be a gap between the tube and the blank, she might want to switch using 5 minute epoxy as it fills gaps better.

We recently picked up the Nova G3 chuck while it was on sale at Woodcraft. We have a mini lathe from Harbor Freight that was gifted to us and it looks like we can set it up for her to use for drilling the blanks and leave the big lathe for her turning. She wants to learn to turn bowls but has some pens and Christmas ornaments she was trying to get completed first.

--Jennifer
 

jennera

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2017
Messages
236
Location
Texas
Just figured out we have a drill chuck for the big lathe already and the Nova G3 chuck package we purchased has the "pin jaws". So, we will give this a shot before we invest in an MT1 drill chuck and chuck adapter for the mini lathe.

Looking forward to cooler weather next weekend so we can finish cleaning and organizing the garage. Still working to clear a space to set the mini lathe up in a good spot. The plan was to make room for both kids to work safely in the garage. Almost there.....
 

magpens

Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2011
Messages
15,912
Location
Canada
I cannot recommend in strong enough terms that you:

1) Drill on the lathe;
2) Buy and use a digital caliper to measure your tube size and hole size and drill size;
3) Regard the drill size recommended in instructions as a guide only;
4) Buy some good quality drill bits ( Norseman ) in a range of sizes you need
If you can afford them, get fractional, metric, and letter-size bits. . It could take a bit of time and experience to figure out what you actually need and can use.

There are two pen kits for which the turned barrels come out notoriously thin at one or both ends - the Executive, and the Sierra (and all its variants).

Take the Executive for example since it is the one you used and it is the worst.
The drill size recommended is 3/8", so the hole size is 0.375" if the hole is PRECISELY drilled.
The bushing size is 0.420". These dimensions are DIAMETERS.
Subtracting: 0.420 - 0.375 = 0.045" . . Divide that last number by 2 to get the acrylic thickness after drilling and after turning the blank down to the bushing size.

The acrylic thickness you get is 0.045"/2 = 0.0225" ... and that is if you have done the drilling and turning PRECISELY to the recommended sizes.

If you set your calipers to 0.0225" and observe the size, you will be amazed at how small it is !! . You can do it, yes, but everything must go perfectly and precisely !!

It is likely that you won't achieve good results consistently !! . So what do you do ?

1) DO NOT use the Executive kit !!
2) If you insist on using it, use a smaller size drill ... but what are your options ?

Check this table of drill sizes: - Drill Size Conversion Table

You could use a 9.50mm drill = 0.374" ... Hmmm, not much better than 3/8" = 0.375"

How about a U size drill = 0.368" ..... better check the tube size ... it's 0.360" for Exec

So, if you use this U size drill you should end up with a gap of (0.368 - 0.360)/2 = 0.004" on each side of your brass tube .... that's the space the glue will occupy.

Now, that's really not enough room to get a good gluing of the tube into the blank !!
And, because of the nature of acrylic materials, you might not even be able to get the tube into the hole WITHOUT any glue ... drilling causes the acrylic to heat and expand, so when you take the drill out, the hole gets smaller again; maybe less than 0.368"

Another thing is that your acrylic wall thickness is now (0.420 - 0.368)/2 = 0.026".
That's still not very thick, and with most acrylic materials you will be able to see the brass tube and the irregularities in the glue layer through the acrylic. . NOT SO NICE.

Do you see why I said DO NOT USE AN EXECUTIVE KIT ? . Sierra is NOT much better.

Hopefully you will also see why you NEED calipers, and NEED a range of drill bit sizes.

With regard to drill bit size, other than the U-size, there is no other size that is useful.
As we saw, the 9.50mm size is extremely close to the 0.375" size. . Forget it.
There is no possibility of going smaller than U-size = 0.368" because the next smaller size is 23/64" = 0.359" which is smaller than the brass tube size, and therefore no good.

So you are out of luck. . That summarizes why I never use an Executive with acrylic.

But you have already glued your tube in the blank ... and you have a visible gap.
You can perhaps fill the gap with some very thin CA glue as suggested above. . This may not be successful because of the viscosity of the glue that prevents it flowing into a small gap.

Forgetting about the visibility of the brass and the glue through the acrylic, you may want to continue with what you are doing. . That visibility may not be a problem ... perhaps you have used black acrylic. . If you are very careful in pressing in the metal parts, you might be successful in avoiding a crack in the acrylic. . One way to avoid cracks is to "ream out" the inside diameter of the brass tube using some "coarse" sandpaper (180 grit) wrapped around a small dowel. . Another way is sand down the size of the brass pen kit parts that get pressed into the brass tube. . Then glue them in.

Or, you might decide not to proceed, but you want to save the brass tube. . You can turn off the glued acrylic by putting the blank back on your lathe, and very carefully turning the acrylic off down to the brass tube ... as you get close to the brass, the acrylic will likely chip off , perhaps with the help of a sharp knife. . You can then reuse the brass tube.

I sincerely hope that I haven't discouraged you or offended you by my remarks above.

Feel free to question me further if you want to. . Good luck with your turning ... I like following your progress.

BTW, you will find that table of drill sizes extremely useful ... keep it handy. . http://www.csgnetwork.com/drillsizeconvert.html
 
Last edited:

eharri446

Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2016
Messages
1,036
Location
Marietta, GA
Here is a link to a handy drill bit stand which has all of the most commonly used pens for drilling blanks: http://www.penturners.org/forum/f158/drill-bit-stand-150346/

I bought one and then went to Drills and Cutters and order one of each bit so that I could start with a fresh set. I had been buying them as I needed them and that was getting a bit expensive, so when I got the stand in, I ordered the lot of them. I also have a set of metric drill bits starting wiht .1 mm and going up to 6mm by .1 mm. My next purchase is to get a set from 6 mm to 10 mm by .1 mm as well.
 

greenacres2

Member
Joined
May 2, 2017
Messages
1,689
Location
Northwest IN
@ jennera--my drilling got MUCH better when I switched from drill press to lathe. Hoping your experience will be the same.

@ Mal--thanks for that post, you wrote what I kind of sensed but hadn't put a finger on. I have numbers skill, but hadn't considered doing my own math!! No need to be surprised at how thin a given wall thickness is when I have calipers, bushings and tubes. (B-T)/2=finished thickness of wall. My "light bulb" clicked on this morning!!
earl
 

KenV

Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2005
Messages
4,720
Location
Juneau, Alaska.
These are for Executive kits. I do not have a photo but the gap is big enough that she would turn all the material down to the bushings and have a clear spot on one end of the pen. She will set these aside and try to use them on a different kit that uses thicker bushings.

Her dad drilled these out for her as we are having some problems with the drill press wobbling but I think he figured out it is the clamp she is using. She will probably go back to using a wooden clamp like Ed shows in his video to hold the blank while she drills it out. Or start using the lathe to drill them. Brian says the Rockler vise is not holding everything tight anymore and the blanks were shaking as he bit drilled deeper into the blank.

Still learning!

Thanks for all the help!

Hmmmm, sounds like dull bits, too fast a feed, and/or not clearing the swarf often enough..... Likely a combination.
 

mark james

IAP Collection, Curator
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
12,750
Location
Medina, Ohio
magpens;194726 [B said:
I sincerely hope that I haven't discouraged you or offended you by my remarks above.[/B]

Feel free to question me further if you want to. . Good luck with your turning ... I like following your progress.

BTW, you will find that table of drill sizes extremely useful ... keep it handy. . Drill Size Conversion Table

Hi Mal, No discouragement was indicated. Your comments are fine!
 

jennera

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2017
Messages
236
Location
Texas
magpens;194726 [B said:
I sincerely hope that I haven't discouraged you or offended you by my remarks above.[/B]

Feel free to question me further if you want to. . Good luck with your turning ... I like following your progress.

BTW, you will find that table of drill sizes extremely useful ... keep it handy. . Drill Size Conversion Table

Hi Mal, No discouragement was indicated. Your comments are fine!
I agree with Mark! I am just the social person in our family so they let me ask the questions. Then I pass the info on to Rebecca and her dad. They figure out all the technical stuff.

We did order some thicker pen kits and extra tubes for her to try and salvage the acryllics. If it works, I will post some photos.

Ed and Dawn are super fast! We ordered Sunday night and the package should be here tomorrow!

Thanks everyone!
Jennifer

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
 

Woodchipper

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
5,211
Location
Cleveland, TN
Great video!!!! I just looked at the part of filling in around the tube. I definitely want to go back and watch the whole thing. Thanks for posting!
 

jennera

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2017
Messages
236
Location
Texas
Package from Exotic Blanks arrived yesterday afternoon complete with M&Ms!

Here are the acrylics she has completed so far on Spartan kits. A quick photo with my cell phone. These will be Christmas gifts for her teachers. I think she has 3 or 4 more to make.

The three on the right are scraps from an acrylic grab bag from Woodcraft. The yellow one is just barely long enough so the jury is still out if that one will be gifted or not.
a309f71cdc2beb2663ce021a75e311e7.jpg


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
 

magpens

Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2011
Messages
15,912
Location
Canada
Those pens are extremely nice !!!! . Well done, Rebecca !!!!

The yellow one looks fine in the picture, but you would know about the length.

Where did you get the pen stand or did you guys make it ?
 
Last edited:

jennera

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2017
Messages
236
Location
Texas
Those pens are extremely nice !!!! . Well done, Rebecca !!!!

The yellow one looks fine in the picture, but you would know about the length.

Where did you get the pen stand or did you guys make it ?

Rebecca says thanks! She is planning to use all wood on the Executive kits and they are going to set the lathe up this weekend to use to drill the blanks. Well, Dad is going to figure it all out then show her. Eventually, we will invest in some parts so the mini lathe can be set up for drilling and leave the larger lathe free for turning so she doesn't have to swap things back and forth.

The pen stand we found at Wood World of Texas. We live close enough to visit the store now and then and they have a large selection of kits. If we just need a few things, or one specialty kit, it is worth the drive instead of paying shipping and handling. Plus we have found some really pretty nice wood there that she can cut into pen blanks.

https://woodworld-of-texas.myshopif...ucts/sraight-acrylic-pen-display-holds-7-pens
 

magpens

Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2011
Messages
15,912
Location
Canada
WOW ! . Sounds like you are really getting into this !!

Thanks for the link to Wood World of Texas. They have some pen kits I have not seen at any other vendor in North America ... some that I recognize have been shown on IAP by a pen turner from Sth Africa . . It seems funny that this company calls their "sierra-like" kits Sahara ! . I have to find out if they will ship to Canada so that I can try some of their stuff.
 

Woodchipper

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
5,211
Location
Cleveland, TN
I was doing a search for silicon plugs and had a stroke of inspiration! I have some military ear plugs that are silicon. I figure that the three baffles could fill a number of tubes and keep the CA from draining into the tube. Any CA that remained in the upper part of the tube could be scraped out and the silicon could be cleaned easily. Am off to experiment! Will let you know what I find. BTW, CVS pharmacy has some silicon earplugs.
 

Beautys_Beast

Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2017
Messages
161
Location
Wisconsin/
I have exclusively gone to drilling on the lathe with the Pen Plus jaws, and drilling half way through from both ends, for this very reason. Nothing worse than the end of a blank chipping out when you are just about finished turning the pen. As for changing set up, I drill all the blanks I am going to make that day at one time, Then glue them all, then barrel cut them all. So I only have to switch the set up once. Now you got me thinking I need another lathe. LOL.
 
Last edited:

Woodchipper

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
5,211
Location
Cleveland, TN
BB, now you are thinking and moving in the right direction! One can never have too many tools, lathes, etc.
I did some blanks on the lathe yesterday- The label in the wood said 3/4x3/4x36 hardwood but I had the Nova chuck turned tight and they wobbled a bit. The result was hole that were too big because the bit moved around in the blank. Will mark them as 7 mm+ so I can use them for another pen model. Need to drill on the DP but I did what BB described and drilled four sets of blanks for the Slimline pens. Live and learn....that's what I like about this website. Great info from great people!
 
Last edited:

eharri446

Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2016
Messages
1,036
Location
Marietta, GA
Woodchipper, CA will not stick to HDPE. I am not sure, but I do not think that it will stick to Delrin either. I know that you can order HDPE rods from Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0013HO2XK/ref=biss_dp_t_asn for less than $13.00 for a 3/4" by 24" rod.

The you can make a bunch of them to fit different size tubes or just taper them.

Also, get a sealed jar and fill it 1/3 full of acetone and drop your stoppers into the jar when you are done. It will clean the CA off so that you are ready for your next use.
 
Last edited:

Woodchipper

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
5,211
Location
Cleveland, TN
I have a piece of HDPE that I got for making spaces for rod grips. I cut a strip and turned it for an inserting tool- works great and cleans up great. I tried the military ear plugs and they are too big for a 7 mm slimline tube but could be used for larger tubes. Will try them and report back.
 

Woodchipper

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
5,211
Location
Cleveland, TN
Bringing this to the top. I didn't have enough room for the CA to run into the gap between tube and the acrylic as shown in the video. I was able to allow some to run down a needle and into the gap. Had to do this twice on one blank, once on another that had a small gap. I started to turn the one with the big gap and found something wasn't looking right. I stopped the lathe and I was into the CA and almost down to the tube. This was for a Slimline and the gap was bigger than the bushing! Just a word to you about the size of the gap and the size of the bushing. If the blank was for a larger pen, it might have turned out OK. Going to try and salvage the tube. I'm cheap! SWMBO suggested keeping the one blank and using another color for the other part of the pen. Keeping the Glowcicle and going with Snow for the other color. Colors are from Woodcraft.
 

magpens

Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2011
Messages
15,912
Location
Canada
Woodchipper ...

Do you know if the Glowsicle blanks are available in other colors besides orange ?
 

Woodchipper

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
5,211
Location
Cleveland, TN
I don't know- that blank is from Woodcraft. Not sure if any other colors would "qualify" as a XXXsicle.
I got a piece of acrylic in Snow for the other half of the pen. SWMBO like it so it must be OK.
 
Top Bottom