4 and 6 blade carbide trimmers?

[redfishsc]

I have been reading around a few of the posts here and have heard people mention a 6-blade barrel trimmer (steel or carbide they didn't say) and another person mention a 4-blade carbide trimmer.

I have the PSI carbide trimmer but it's only a 2-blade and is the worst barrel trimmer I've ever used, no matter what speed I trim with, or if I'm using the lathe or a drill, it shatters resin blanks and skips a lot on wood blanks. Just too aggressive with only 2 blades.

A 4-blade or even 6-blade carbide cutter would be real lovely. Can anyone point me in the right direction?


Until then I'll keep nursing along my current steel trimmer sets with a diamond file.

 

[Paul Downes]

I haven't heard of any 6 blade trimmers but i think one of the members here was modifying an existing 4 blade into a carbide tiped version. Maybe someone can help you with a name.

I would point out that a 3 blade cutter ground to the proper rake angle would be best.
If I could bunp you back to the days of geometry class you will remember that 3 points determine a plane. I won't go into the physics of cutter engineering but it can be quite complicated. I have designed some cutters for specific technical aplications and it took a lot of lab work and experiments to get it right- and that was for machining copper.

I have been thinking about manufacturing some 3 blade cutters for pen making and it occurs to me that we would need several ground at different rake angles to account for the different densities and grain structures that woods have. I have also wondered about how cutters with a swept back blade orientation would work. It might cut like a pencil shaver to give you an idea. Rake angle refers to the angle of the cutter face is in relationship to the edge. A neutral rake is perpendicular. A negative rake is tipped back, and a positive rake tipped forward.
I don't have access to a machine shop right now, or I would make some prototypes and test them out. Maybe if someone has the machining capability on the forum I could help with the design.

Frankly, I have switched to sanding some woods because of their brittleness. I liked the 2 blade carbide cutters for their sharpness, but they are gathering dust in my tool drawer because they didn't machine a square face. I had a brain fart when I bought them. Hope this helps.........

 

[DCBluesman]

Contact Nolan for a 4-blade carbide tipped trimmer.

 

[JohnU]

The six blade is offered as well as the 4 blade at Rizheng in China. There was just a group buy from them because the shipping is so high. They are fine when new, like the 4 blade trimmers most offer, but they dont last like the carbide tipped ones. So I guess its all in how often you want to sharpen.

 

[redfishsc]

Originally posted by Paul Downes

I haven't heard of any 6 blade trimmers but i think one of the members here was modifying an existing 4 blade into a carbide tiped version. Maybe someone can help you with a name.

I would point out that a 3 blade cutter ground to the proper rake angle would be best.
If I could bunp you back to the days of geometry class you will remember that 3 points determine a plane. I won't go into the physics of cutter engineering but it can be quite complicated. I have designed some cutters for specific technical aplications and it took a lot of lab work and experiments to get it right- and that was for machining copper.

I have been thinking about manufacturing some 3 blade cutters for pen making and it occurs to me that we would need several ground at different rake angles to account for the different densities and grain structures that woods have. I have also wondered about how cutters with a swept back blade orientation would work. It might cut like a pencil shaver to give you an idea. Rake angle refers to the angle of the cutter face is in relationship to the edge. A neutral rake is perpendicular. A negative rake is tipped back, and a positive rake tipped forward.
I don't have access to a machine shop right now, or I would make some prototypes and test them out. Maybe if someone has the machining capability on the forum I could help with the design.

Frankly, I have switched to sanding some woods because of their brittleness. I liked the 2 blade carbide cutters for their sharpness, but they are gathering dust in my tool drawer because they didn't machine a square face. I had a brain fart when I bought them. Hope this helps.........

Very interesting Paul. I indeed had forgotten my geometry. Would a three-blade cutter, revolving in plane about an axis constitute a scalar or a vector?


Now, here's my theory on how many cutterheads would make a cleaner cut--- birthed RIGHT from the tablesaw. Most hardwood ripping blades for a 10" tablesaw have in the ballpark of 20-40 teeth. If you want a smoother cut, generally speaking, you reach for the one with the most teeth. It does NOT cut as quickly, as easily, and if you aren't careful, you can leave burn marks on the wood. But the 40-tooth, if used properly and is sharp, make a glassy cut on the hardwood. Most of the blades I prefer have a positive rake. I think most pen blank cutterheads have a neutral rake, as a positive rake might prove to be too aggressive and may even self-feed.


The same "more teeth= smoother cut" works the same on plywood. A 40-tooth combination blade will make a decent cut, but put an 80 tooth blade on and you will again cut edges smooth as glass (well, almost, on plywood) with a LOT less splintering of the veneer.


The tradeoff for having more teeth is, as mentioned above, slower feed speeds and more resistance (ie, more work for the operator) but smoother cuts are the goal here-- we're only milling off under 1/8" in most cases.

I'll be contacting Nolan about the 4-blade carbide mill, thanks Lou!

 

[Paul Downes]

Would a three-blade cutter, revolving in plane about an axis constitute a scalar or a vector?
Hey that's almost a philpsophical question. I'm leaning toward vector because the 3 blade cutter is displaceing air like a fan. (Bad science joke perhaps.)

I don't like the concept of more than 3 blades because of the chatter problem. Of course, you can have chatter with 3 blades. I just noticed an increase of chatter with cutter designs with more than 3 blades in an application similar to what we are doing to pen blanks.

I really want to make a cutter with 3 curved blades to introduce shear to the cutting action. I think it may be a smooth operator. I bet it would work real nice on the resin blanks. I hate the grabbing and chatter I get with some woods like cocobolo. You have to press hard to get the cutter to cut (sometimes) and then it grabs and sometimes blows out the side of the blank. It would also be cool to have a squaring cutter with carbide inserts.

I also have wondered about how well the pilots fit in the tubes. Any side torque and you get a grab with some woods. A 4 or 6 blade cutter might be more true to the plane in that case.

 

[sbell111]

Originally posted by JohnU

The six blade is offered as well as the 4 blade at Rizheng in China. There was just a group buy from them because the shipping is so high. They are fine when new, like the 4 blade trimmers most offer, but they dont last like the carbide tipped ones. So I guess its all in how often you want to sharpen.

I believe that the six-edge heads do a much better job than the four-edge ones. I am very happy with the ones that I've been using.

Regarding sharpening the, many people don't sharpen them, at all. They are so inexpensive that many people just replace them if they get dull.

 

[gketell]

While a curved-blade cutter head sounds like it would cut wonderfully, I would HATE to have to try to sharpen it.

GK

 

[redfishsc]

Lol, Greg, I hate to sharpen any of them! I can do it and do it regularly, but that's why I'm going with Nolan's 4-blade carbide!

 

[randyrls]

Originally posted by redfishsc

I have been reading around a few of the posts here and have heard people mention a 6-blade barrel trimmer (steel or carbide they didn't say) and another person mention a 4-blade carbide trimmer.

To add to the thread; I would make the cutter head and mounting shaft a bit smaller than 7mm. Sometimes when trimming a 7mm tube, the brass doesn't get finished even with the wood, but leaves protruding brass above the wood surface. This makes it hard to put the pen together properly.

 

[Paul in OKC]

Are you talking about the actual cutting edge being curved? Lost me somewhere in there. Not sure about that. I have a three blade and a four blade mill. I prefer the four, and would think the six should work well, albeit slower in cutting. BTW, I can sharpen 3, 4, 6 bladed cutters, including the carbide ones.

 

[redfishsc]

To add to the thread; I would make the cutter head and mounting shaft a bit smaller than 7mm. Sometimes when trimming a 7mm tube, the brass doesn't get finished even with the wood, but leaves protruding brass above the wood surface. This makes it hard to put the pen together properly.

I know exactly what you are talking about. You can use this tool below to fix that problem. Just use it to whittle away that pip of brass. These are often available at hardware and tool stores for a reasonable price.

 

[Nolan]

Originally posted by redfishsc

To add to the thread; I would make the cutter head and mounting shaft a bit smaller than 7mm. Sometimes when trimming a 7mm tube, the brass doesn't get finished even with the wood, but leaves protruding brass above the wood surface. This makes it hard to put the pen together properly.

I know exactly what you are talking about. You can use this tool below to fix that problem. Just use it to whittle away that pip of brass. These are often available at hardware and tool stores for a reasonable price.

The trimmers I am doing address this problem also as the carbide cutting blades are radiused in the inside to the shaft so there isnt any gap. Did you get my email????

 

[Nolan]

BTW I should have 10 complete trimmers done this weds. I will post them in a tread when the time comes with the price.

 

[redfishsc]

Yes, I did get your email and I'm just waiting for the word. If you can, shoot me an email when they are ready-- things are busy for me and I'll likely forget to check the classifieds for your post.

 

[Nolan]

Originally posted by redfishsc

Yes, I did get your email and I'm just waiting for the word. If you can, shoot me an email when they are ready-- things are busy for me and I'll likely forget to check the classifieds for your post.

Will do

 

[nava1uni]

I bought a barrel trimmer from Addictive Pens that has 6 blades and it works very nicely. I read some commentary on another forum, out of Australia, that I follow. the service was very quick and easy and I received my trimmer within a week of ordering, even though it came from Australia. I would do business with them again without any hesitation. The barrel trimmer is really nice and hones nicely.

 

[Paul Downes]

Another good tube chamfering tool is the RCBS case chamfering tool. You can find them at a sporting goods store like Gander Mountain, or gun shop.

 

[sbell111]

Originally posted by Paul Downes

Another good tube chamfering tool is the RCBS case chamfering tool. You can find them at a sporting goods store like Gander Mountain, or gun shop.

That's what I use. It's an awesome little tool.

 

[jrc]

Anyone got a trimmer from Nolan? How do they work? I' been waiting for one for a while and wondering about them.

 

[oldcaptainrusty]

Nolan's trimmer

Jim I purchased a trimmer from Nolan and am thoroughly pleased with it. I have done 30 or so blanks with it so far, various woods and acrylics; it works like a champ. One problem I had been having was with antler, I would trim one or two blanks and have to sharpen my trimmer, not anymore. I highly recommend Nolan's trimmer.:good::good::good: