1/8 inch short

[Joe L]

First post with photo. What can I do about this? Sierra pen with white coconut kit. White coconut brass already inside casting. I was careful not to cut into brass while squaring off. Finished barrel still 1/8" from barrel meeting nib hardware. How do I "fix" this? (attach photo)
-joe L

 

[hewunch]

use a sierra kit or a Wall St. II and not a Sierra vista or Wall III

 

[nava1uni]

I think that you must not have it put together properly. Check to see if there is some glue inside the tubing. Check all the of the tubing, not just that end. It sounds like something is stopping it from going into the tube all the way, or there could be a burr that is stopping it. Might carefully ream the edge so it goes in a little easier. Is there anything in the cap end that could be preventing it from engaging fully at that end.

 

[Joe L]

Thanks for the prompt response...

I have slight memory loss<sigh>... I don't know if the white coconut came in the kit or not. Bought it a couple months ago. Anyway... when I picked it out to turn it the other day it was in the kit bag (0502X/B-SRG-COY-1, Sierra Ballpoint Pen, Bright Copper-White Coconut) bag says "Made in Taiwan R.O.C.

I'm calling the supplier Monday. I'll definitely ask him about the difference between Sierra and Sierra Vista. One question.... ?? Wall St II and Wall III... I don't know anything about that brand/series... who makes them?
thanks
-joe L

 

[Joe L]

Thanks for your thoughts....

I decided to de-assemble the pen to check both ends of the tube. Easy to do with one end but required de-assemble of the clip end. Both ends of the barrel are clean, so since this pen only has a single barrel, I'm comfortable I put it together correctly...always read the instructions<grin>...

When I've had to cut barrel material, I've goofed before and squared down too much and ground some brass off... so I am familiar with "just a little more to make it square" and ending up with a "short" barrel. I definitely didn't do that..

-joe L

 

[hewunch]

Wall Street II and Sierra are the same pen. Wall Street III and Sierra Vista are the same pen. The vista is fatter than the regular sierra, ergo the Wall st III is fatter than the II. I would be willing to bet you turned down to the sierra bushings. As far as the gap in putting it together, I would say something is blocking your transmission from going up into the finial. Or you just aren't pressing hard enough.

 

[leehljp]

Joe,

Every once in a while, someone will note that a Sierra gets stuck or doesn't fit. Usually the problem is addressed as the user not assembling it correctly or something to that effect. I have a Sierra kit back in Japan that I have had about two years at least. I tried assembling it two weeks ago and it would not seat without considerable (too much) pressure, so I didn't assembly that one. Because I was in a hurry, I took the kit and set it aside (I just arrived back in the States for a few weeks). I have not tested it in terms of measuring inside dimensions as compared to a good Sierra kit. But I have a feeling that when I get around to it, I am going to find the internal dimensions of the hole or maybe the transmission is way out of tolerance, as compared to normal Sierra kits.


I have assembled hundreds of Sierras and this one is different. There have been several reports of assembling and not being able to take the cap off, or the transmission comes off up inside the clip end. IMO, All of this points to the same basic problem of the transmission being too tight of a fit for the clip end cap, but the exact problem is unknown.

This doesn't happen often but it happens enough that it comes up every 6 months or so.

 

[Randy_]

.....I don't know if the white coconut came in the kit or not. Bought it a couple months ago. Anyway... when I picked it out to turn it the other day it was in the kit bag (0502X/B-SRG-COY-1, Sierra Ballpoint Pen, Bright Copper-White Coconut) bag says "Made in Taiwan R.O.C.......

Let's do the easy thing first and be sure the blank is the correct length. I believe that that blank only comes with a pen kit. Don't think you can buy it by itself. IIRC, they are only available for the Baron and the Sierra Vista. So you might have gotten a short blank or one that was intended for a Baron........tube dia. may be different for the Baron so that might not be a realistic possibility.

Anyway, I have one of the abalone blanks intended for the Sierra Vista and it measures about 2-3/16 inches. Can't tell you right down to the last thousandth as I haven't trimmed the blank down to the brass tube yet and had to make a best approximation. If your tube is not very close to the length mentioned above, then that is the problem. Otherwise, the problem lies elsewhere.

Here is another measurement that might help you figure out where the problem lies. I tried to measure how much length you should have in the finial for the transmission to engage with. I noted the point where the transmission first started to meet resistance from the finial and then pushed the transmission as far into the finial as it would go. that turned out to be right at 3/8 inch. If your transmission will not penetrate the finial by about that much then you know there is a problem in that area.

Good luck and be sure to let us know how things shake out.

 

[KenV]

I have one of the abalone versions in the stockpile of pens -- that came with the sierra vista size hardware and is still sold by Berea as of the web page today. AS sold the Baron and both Brerea and AS sell an El Grande version.

Tube length is standard twist sierra or similar. Note that the last bit of the transmission goes into the cap section on the pen -- that is it is not seating into the clip/cap on the top. You can take it apart again and look into the cap for fit -- and indeed I sometimes need to assemble the kit without the tube to assure all is aligned well (those rare hard ones that do come along. I have two copper sierras I was just working with and they are awfully tight setting the transmission and did not want to come apart to service the transmisison for final adjustments and a bit of silicone lube. (stiff transmissions too).

 

[Randy_]

.....I have one of the abalone versions in the stockpile of pens -- that came with the sierra vista size hardware and is still sold by Berea as of the web page today. AS sold the Baron and both Brerea and AS sell an El Grande version......

Ken: I'm not crazy about my abalone blank. I wonder if you might take a peek at yours and see if you have the same problem that I do. When I look at by blank, I see two straight lines (seams) at exactly 180° to each other. I interpret this to mean that the abalone comes as sheets and is applied to the tube as two rectangular sections.

The thing that I am unhappy about is the following. When I look at the pen under a good light, the abalone is very reflective and iridescent. As the pen is rotated around its long axis, the abalone continues to "shine" until I get to one of the "seams" and then the abalone gets very dull in the other section. If I then tune the blank end for end, the section that was non-reflective gets very shiney and the section that was shiney gets very dull. It is like the abalone sections have a specific orientation and one of the sections did not get glued on the tube in the correct orientation.

Very annoying to have the blank half shiney and half dull. I wonder if yours does the same thing??

Hope I did a decent job of describing the problem so you can understand the situation??

 

[Joe L]

Hank, thanks for the info regarding "past experiences".... you are not the only one who has expressed "tight fit, push harder" comment. I am going to lightly sand the end of the transmission (as well as its outside diameter).... maybe it just needs some 'nudging' to seat properly. I know I've tried the "ram it harder" and that doesn't work.
-joe L

 

[Joe L]

<<Wall Street II and Sierra are the same pen>>

Thanks, that clears it up. Your earlier comment about using the 'wrong Sierra' bushing had me taking a closer look at the photo. It does appear that... if/when the barrel correctly meets the nib end... the barrel end will be "under-turned". I'll find out if/when I get this situation corrected. Thanks for the eagle-eye<grin>
-joe L

 

[Randy_]

Joe: The metal of the transmission shell is not very thick. Think I might be inclined to try to open up the hole in the cap rather than sanding on the transmission. My other concern would be getting sanding grit inside the transmission and causing it to function poorly or not at all.

 

[Joe L]

Here is another measurement that might help you figure out where the problem lies. I tried to measure how much length you should have in the finial for the transmission to engage with. I noted the point where the transmission first started to meet resistance from the finial and then pushed the transmission as far into the finial as it would go. that turned out to be right at 3/8 inch. If your transmission will not penetrate the finial by about that much then you know there is a problem in that area.

All bets are off right now.... I just tried to pull the barrel from the rest of the pen and it's stuck tight. Had to unscrew it... leaving the transmission firmly inside the barrel. It will make dis-assembly that much harder...wish I had just had to pop the end cap off. I'll report my progress Monday.
-joe L

 

[Joe L]

Joe: The metal of the transmission shell is not very thick. Think I might be inclined to try to open up the hole in the cap rather than sanding on the transmission. My other concern would be getting sanding grit inside the transmission and causing it to function poorly or not at all.

Hi Randy, it is 4:45am here in AZ.. and good point regarding transmission thickness and grit. However, first I'm going to have to expose the transmission (it's now firmly stuck inside the barrel...

Usually I use a punch to dis-assemble, but I don't think that would be effective...just drive the transmission further into the housing. Hmmm.. if THAT did work, it would solve my problem. No, I'm going to wrap a piece of leather around the clip end and see if I can dis-assemble that piece first. I'll work on it later today.
-joe L

 

[Randy_]

Thanks for the prompt response...

I have slight memory loss<sigh>... I don't know if the white coconut came in the kit or not. Bought it a couple months ago. Anyway... when I picked it out to turn it the other day it was in the kit bag (0502X/B-SRG-COY-1, Sierra Ballpoint Pen, Bright Copper-White Coconut) bag says "Made in Taiwan R.O.C.

I'm calling the supplier Monday. I'll definitely ask him about the difference between Sierra and Sierra Vista. One question.... ?? Wall St II and Wall III... I don't know anything about that brand/series... who makes them?
thanks
-joe L

Joe: The 0502X/B designation is for the Sierra Vista pen. The standard Sierra twist designation is 0502/B. The two pens are essentially identical except for the fact that the Vista is a little larger in diameter to accommodate the fancy barrels, coconut abalone etc. The standard Sierra requires a 20A bushing kit and the Vista requires a 70A bushing kit. Since the tubes are the same size you could mistakenly use either set of bushings with either kit; but if you use the 20A bushings, your barrel will be under-sized and will "NOT" match the Vista hardware. It is also possible that you will cut through the resin and get into the actual coconut.

I don't recall exactly what the deal is; but my Vista bushings were labeled 50A on the printed label. However, the 50A was crossed out by hand and remarked 70A.

 

[KenV]

Randy -- I checked the abalone pens and I am not having the light/dull problem apparent. I looked at an El Grande also. It seems to be fine, and my wife remains quite pleased with it.

Joe -- I suggest you consider the transmission a lost item -- and that happens -- knock it through with the transfer punch to remove the top fitting -and you want to recover the top fitting.

The Sierra Vista is not lots larger, but is noticably so with a standard sized turning is put into it. The other way around pretty much works the same. I relearn from time to time to check the dimension with a micrometer or calipers -- just relearned that lesson with a new set of bushings this weekend.

You can recast polyester blanks (Don Ward provided that advise) and it works well. If you do not do casting, you can plug the ends of the tube and recoat the blank with Systems Three Epoxy-- this is the crystal clear kind and is not intended for underwater work. I am being brand specific here as you do not want the amber colored products. System Three is from Auburn Washington and the product can be found in several catalogs or some stores. http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=20012&cat=1,110,42965 Note that this stuff is not cheap -- but it works well. Use cheap as your own experiment.

I use this to repair chips in polyester resin or chunks that break out of snakeskin blanks with good success. Sometimes I have a few small bubbles, but most clear. (CA does not do the task and tends to turn white over time)

Build up the surface to be overly large and trim the ends again -- turn with 70A bushings with a caliper check, and you are likely to find that Bob is your uncle.

The nice people at Bearea will sell you a replacement Sierra transmission for a nominal sum with great customer service. I just got a couple of "guts" for sierra click pencils that I broke in handling (airplane baggage actually) for a buck each. Get a few spares while you are ordering.

Look at those new Titanium plated Sierra versions they have on the home page for $10 -- I got several of those and they are a nice pen. Assembled 8 last weekend.

 

[Randy_]

Thanks for checking your abalone blanks, Ken. Think I will call Berea Monday and see what they have to say. May be a little sticky, though, as I actually purchased the kit from AS. But he discontinued them a while ago.

 

[leehljp]

All bets are off right now.... I just tried to pull the barrel from the rest of the pen and it's stuck tight. Had to unscrew it... leaving the transmission firmly inside the barrel. It will make dis-assembly that much harder...wish I had just had to pop the end cap off. I'll report my progress Monday.
-joe L

Wish I had looked at this earlier, or I would have warned you about the sanding. Doesn't do any good. I tried that too. Stuck! I think I sprayed some WD-40 like lube and put the cap back on; twisted and twisted until it started to come loose. Finally go it out. That is why I think the cap end is not drilled to tolerances. Another transmission almost did the same.

 

[Joe L]

FIXED 1/8" Short Sierra

OK, because of your comments, the pen is fixed!
1. I did make a mistake with the bushings. I used the 20A instead of the correct one.... Solution next time.... mark on the bag the bushing to use!
2. Yes, because of the incorrect bushing, eagle eyes will spot that this pen barrel isn't EXACTLY the diameter matching the hardware (lesson learned)
3. I had enough poly left that I did not turn down to the material... I call myself lucky on that one
4. I used two pieces of an old leather belt to disassamble the pen. One piece slid under the clip on the barrel and was tightened in the vice, the other leather piece wraped around the final end and I used pliers to twist it loose.
5. The transmission appeared to be very slightly at an angle (similiar to when you try to screw on a nut and it doesn't catch "just right"). I was very careful to "straighten out" that flaw when pressing in the transmission 1/8" further into the final.
6. To accomplish #5 above... I first lined the pen parts up to check how much I actually needed to seat the barrel. Then I used a black marker on the transmission where it entered the final. Finally, I used my pen press to nudge the transmission to the black mark.
7. Assembled the pen. At first the pen end showed but would not withdraw. With nothing to lose, I simply started twisting it back and forth and then it worked. I presume that a small part of the actual mechanism was in the final and my twisting rubbed smooth just enough of the mechanism housing to allow it to work.

That's it.... my thanks for all your input. I learned a few things and hopefully will eliminate some potential future errors
-joe L

 

[Joe L]

To Ken V..... I was so excited about being able to fix my pen and relate it to the group that I didn't read your post until now<sigh>..... I appreciate your thoughts and tips. At this time I don't cast...heck, I'm still trying to learn how to use the tools<grin>.... but I want to do some casting in the future.

I've copy/paste your recourse information, I appreciate the tips.

-joe L

 

[KenV]

Glad you were able to recover so easily-

 

[Randy_]

Thanks for checking your abalone blanks, Ken. Think I will call Berea Monday and see what they have to say. May be a little sticky, though, as I actually purchased the kit from AS. But he discontinued them a while ago.

Called Berea today as promised and had a nice long chat with Joe. He had never seen or heard of an abalone blank that was like mine. When I started describing the problem to him, he asked if I was Randy.........seems he had already seen my earlier IAP post describing the problem.​

To make a longer story shorter, he generously offered to send me another blank to see if that solved my problem. Very gracious of him considering that I had purchased the blank from BB originally rather than Berea.

Gold star for Berea customer service!!:bananen_smilies046:

On another subject, I asked him about the labeling of the bushings for the Sierra Vista kit. The story is that Berea originally identified those bushings as 50A. BB @ AS already had a bushing designated as 50A so he renumbered the SV bushings to 70A and that is the way they are identified on the AS web site. Bear Tooth Woods also identifies their Sierra Vista bushings as 50A. That explains why my SV bushings from AS have a printed label that says 50A that is crossed out and hand labeled as 70A. So you need to be a little careful which bushings you use. If you have a set of bushings from AS that is labeled 50A, they are for the El Toro and the El Presidente kits.......nothing is ever simple, is it!!

Anyway, my thanks, again, to Joe at Berea for the replacement blank. I really like the look of the abalone blank.....at least the shiny part.....and if it turns out that I just got a bad one, I plan to buy more of them. And will order some of the Mother of Pearl ones, too. Had been holding off on that because I was afraid I might run into the same problem as I had on the abalone blank.

(Note: Another interesting piece of trivia from Joe that some might find interesting is that the early abalone blanks had sections of abalone that wrapped around the complete circumference of the tube and resulted in a seam that ran completely around the blank instead of running parallel to the long axis of the blank. If you ever run across one of these, you will know that you have an antique!!)


​

 

[Randy_]

I received the new abalone blank from Berea in the mail Friday. I had a busy weekend and did not get a chance to spin up the blank; but can tell from just looking at the raw blank that the problem is resolved. Apparently the one I got from AS was defective.

Again, my thanks to Berea for their service!!

 

[Joe L]

Randy... glad you found that solution. Yes, I've done business with Joe at Berea... very knowledgable and customer oriented... IAP folks just as helpful. Enjoy turning!
-joe L

 

[Russianwolf]

Joe, since you didn't hit coconut, and if you can disassemble the pen again, You can swap the hardware from the Vista to a regular Sierra and not have the underturned problem.

 

[Joe L]

Thanks, Mike.... your idea is worth doing! If this keeps up, I might quit making pens and simply open up a "pen repair shop"<grin>.... I certainly do enough<sigh><grin>
-joe L

 

[Randy_]

I'm afraid that solution won't work. The hardware on the Sierra kits is not as "fat" as the that on the Sierra Vista kits. If you turn the blank down to the correct diameter for the Sierra hardware, you are very likely to get into the abalone itself......or, at least, that is my understanding.

Joe: Here is another alternative that you could try that might be a possibility. Turn each end of the blank down to the tube and add an "OOPS" ring.....a dark, contrasting color would probably be best. Each ring should probably be in the range of 1/4" to 3/8" long. Turn the "OOPS" ring to the proper diameter to match the hardware of the Sierra Vista and then taper it to match the diameter of the existing blank. I expect that the taper will be so slight that you will be the only one who notices it.:wink:

 

[Joe L]

You might be giving me more of a challenge than I can handle<grin>... I'm printing out your message because the wife just hit me with a project that is going to take me from turning for a bit of time<BIG sigh>
-joe L

 

[Randy_]

That is what wives are for!!:biggrin::biggrin:

 

[Randy_]

You might be giving me more of a challenge than I can handle<grin>....

One way to become a better (more skilled) pencrafter is to take on tasks that are a little beyond your current skill level.

Anyway, what have you got to lose. You probably don't want to use the blank the way it is now, so if you mess up you won't be any worse off than you are now unless you can find someone who is willing to recast it for you. I can understand that it is a little tough to experiment with a $10 blank; but sometimes you just do what you gotta do!!:wink:

 

[Joe L]

Randy, I've had time to think...(don't say it...<grin>). If I used the Sierra Vista hardware and have turned with a standard Sierra bushing, the result is an undersized blank...which it is...on the Sierra hardware. Thus, substituting standard Sierra hardware should perfectly match the blank with hardware. No further turning needed.
(that's what a quiet nap and good meal gets you...2nd thinking option)
-joe L

 

[Randy_]

.....Thus, substituting standard Sierra hardware should perfectly match the blank with hardware. No further turning needed.
(that's what a quiet nap and good meal gets you...2nd thinking option)
-joe L

That does make a lot of sense; but the operative word is "should."

I have found that turning to the bushing doesn't always give me the result I am looking for. Bushings that are a little over or a little under the actual hardware is not unheard of. If you have a micrometer or a caliper, you might want to measure the blank and compare it with the Sierra hardware. If it matches, that is great and your problem is solved; but if you are over the Sierra hardware and need to turn off more of the blank, you could still have a problem.

If it turns out those blanks can be turned down to Sierra size, that would be a good thing to know. Personally, I think the Sierra Vista is a little fat and it would be my preference to turn them down top Sierra size if possible.

 

[Joe L]

Randy, I am waiting on UPS for digital caliper. Ordered it last week.
-joe L

 

[jack barnes]

Joe, you could have saved yourself the wait time and shipping, there is a HF on Bell Road, or it was the last time I was in your area. I have their calipers and like them better then wood crafts.

Jack

 

[Joe L]

Hi Jack.... I am lousy with initials and still getting used to the businesses in this area. What is HF? For that matter, I don't think I checked Home Depot or Lowes (both of them paractically butt together (Bell/Grand) here in Surprise.

As it was, I was ordering a bunch of stuff from Woodcraft and the calipers were just one of the items... Had it been a stand-alone purchase, I probably would have done more research...
-joe L

 

[Randy_]

"HF" stands for Harbor freight, Joe.

Most who buy calipers from them are very satisfied. Even though HF has a rep for selling cheap stuff apparently their calipers are of better than average quality. Only problem with their digital calipers is most of them, if not all, don't have an auto cut-off mode and you can burn up batteries pretty quick. Easily remedied, however, by visiting your local dollar store where you can pick up packages of those batteries 10 for a buck!!

I have a HF caliper and like it very much. It is a dial caliper which I bought when it got too hard to read the vernier on my high dollar Japanese caliper that I've had for 40 years. I don't think HF makes this particular model any more. It has two needles on the dial and measures in both inches and millimeters.

I think you are going to enjoy having a digital caliper around. I use mine for all sorts of things besides pencrafting.

 

[Joe L]

HF = Harbor Freight. The name smacked me hard once I saw it<sigh>. Yes, it's still on Bell Road... about 6 miles away. I went there once... and it draws a crowd. I was looking for a arbor press and I didn't care for the lack of quality. I probably should travel down there again... but I'm trying to keep away from stores that are magnetized to my wallet<grin>

My eyes and lack of ever learning how to read those calipers are the reason I bought the digital. I guess I lack the basic math to figure out which of those tiny lines I am supposed to line up and then match up with those other tiny lines on the scale... The large digital readout is much more accurate. Oh, got my stuff from PSI and comes with a nice case to protect it from the dust. Also included instructions. I got it primarily to measure bushings. You know how some brand instructions talk about one of the bushing being .425 and the other is .452 and with my eyes I have a little trouble recognizing which bushing is which......well, not really, but I'd be hard pressed to try and duplicate turning a delrin bushing by "eye"<grin>

-joe L