White tail from southeast Arkansas.

[Phillip Kelley]

Is the smell or the dust from antler that is supposed to be toxic? Here is antler harvested from a white tail deer in southeast Arkansas, on a "Classic" gun metal kit. It is a commissioned piece that I am going to
send off & have the name lazer engraved....any suggestions?:wink:

 

[ironman123]

Very nice pen and congrats on the commission.

Ray

 

[plantman]

Phillip; It's the microorganisms or pathogens found in the dust that could be the problem causing particles. The odor you smell are the fine particals of dust in the air. Antlers are engorged and dried blood cells and not bone as many people think. With the cronic wasting being found lately, at least a dust mask or respirator should be worn. Jim S

 

[TimS124]

Phillip; It's the microorganisms or pathogens found in the dust that could be the problem causing particles. The odor you smell are the fine particals of dust in the air. Antlers are engorged and dried blood cells and not bone as many people think. With the cronic wasting being found lately, at least a dust mask or respirator should be worn. Jim S

Jim - can you provide a source for more info on antler being dried blood cells and not bone? The sources I've found online like Wikipedia disagree (which doesn't mean much beyond perhaps I need better sources...which is what I'm trying to ask for).

I'm not arguing with you...just seeking more details please.

Here's what Wikipedia has to say about antler:

Growth occurs at the tip, and is initially cartilage, which is later replaced by bone tissue. Once the antler has achieved its full size, the velvet is lost and the antler's bone dies. This dead bone structure is the mature antler.

That's from the second paragraph of this section: Antler - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thank you.

 

[Jim Burr]

Bone, antler, nails result in fatal lung disease. This has been tossed around here like crazy and I have trouble believing there is one out there I haven't admonished! The dust from those materials will kill you...end of story. If you aren't using breathing protection AND impact protection...why are you using a lathe????
I've "pulled the plug" on more than one wood worker that suffered from the two most fatal diseases of all...ignorance and arrogance..."I didn't know" or "It won't get me". Do your family a favor...cover up.

 

[plantman]

Phillip; It's the microorganisms or pathogens found in the dust that could be the problem causing particles. The odor you smell are the fine particals of dust in the air. Antlers are engorged and dried blood cells and not bone as many people think. With the cronic wasting being found lately, at least a dust mask or respirator should be worn. Jim S

Jim - can you provide a source for more info on antler being dried blood cells and not bone? The sources I've found online like Wikipedia disagree (which doesn't mean much beyond perhaps I need better sources...which is what I'm trying to ask for).

I'm not arguing with you...just seeking more details please.

Here's what Wikipedia has to say about antler:

Growth occurs at the tip, and is initially cartilage, which is later replaced by bone tissue. Once the antler has achieved its full size, the velvet is lost and the antler's bone dies. This dead bone structure is the mature antler.

That's from the second paragraph of this section: Antler - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thank you.

Never hurts to question one's sorce. Lets start here, Cartilage= A firm (elastic) type of connective tissue. Bone= A (hard) connective tissue forming and composing the skeleton of a vertiebrate. Antler= One of the solid horns, usualy branched, of the deer family. Horn= There is realy no definitive definition of what horn is made of in the Webster's dictionary that I am looking at. I base my starement on friends who are Taxidermists and have told me that antlers are dried blood cells and to avoid breathing the dust from drilling or sanding. I also watch the deer in my backyard from Spring through Winter as they develope their horns. When the horns are in velvet, you can see the blood running down them until they scrape all the velvet off and polish them to a shine. They shed the antlers because the blood supply stops and they harden, making them easier to break off at the base in the winter. I guess you would have to ask a Bioiogist about the bioiolical phenomena characteristic of the organism of the antler to see what class it falls into. I could be incorrect after all, and if so, except my apology ahead of time. Jim S

 

[plantman]

I made a few phone calls, I have been inlightened by experts that all antlers are bone, and an extension of the skull, but all horns are not antlers. The difference being the Keratin being found in some horns. The velvet on the antlers contains the blood rich neutrents that supply the antler in order to grow. Caution should still be taken when drilling or sanding. I am sorry if I have missled anyone!! But it is what I was told and believed until today. After reading several journals, I questioned my own sorces and desided to get the correct answer from those that knew for sure. Thanks to the University of Wisconsin. Jim S

 

[TimS124]

Jim,

Thank you for taking my question in the spirit it was intended and digging into it to clarify. I was very curious about what antlers are truly made from (and regardless of their origin, I agree breathing their dust is a very bad idea).

Tim S.

 

[BayouPenturner]

great research Jim, as turners we have associates who turned some type of antler, wood, or plastic, then sanded the product without protection then discovering the health issues. Bring careful is critical if not we could be sorry..

 

[BSea]

Hey Philip, I'm not qualified to settle the bone/antler investigation, but that is a good looking pen. And if it helps, I use a respirator when turning antler. I guess you won't be able to bring that to the meeting in May since it's a commissioned pen. I'd have liked to seed that engraved.

 

[Jim Burr]

I made a few phone calls, I have been inlightened by experts that all antlers are bone, and an extension of the skull, but all horns are not antlers. The difference being the Keratin being found in some horns. The velvet on the antlers contains the blood rich neutrents that supply the antler in order to grow. Caution should still be taken when drilling or sanding. I am sorry if I have missled anyone!! But it is what I was told and believed until today. After reading several journals, I questioned my own sorces and desided to get the correct answer from those that knew for sure. Thanks to the University of Wisconsin. Jim S

I wish you had a clear answer here Jim. The facts are this...sorry if UW doesn't support your findings, but the vast majority of the medical field I work in does...this crap is bad, look it up. Spend time in the ICU with patients that have turned this for years and are now dying because of it. I'll put my medical license on the wall to support the findings...will you?
You would find yourself in a better place keeping people safe rather than supporting destructive technique.
I'm happy you are 70 +??. Please help others get there too.

 

[Akula]

Breathing dust is bad, some is much worse so why take a unnecessary risk? Same for chemical fumes. Just no excuse today to expose yourself when there are many different levels of protection.

 

[Band Saw Box]

Great looking pen.

 

[plantman]

I made a few phone calls, I have been inlightened by experts that all antlers are bone, and an extension of the skull, but all horns are not antlers. The difference being the Keratin being found in some horns. The velvet on the antlers contains the blood rich neutrents that supply the antler in order to grow. Caution should still be taken when drilling or sanding. I am sorry if I have missled anyone!! But it is what I was told and believed until today. After reading several journals, I questioned my own sorces and desided to get the correct answer from those that knew for sure. Thanks to the University of Wisconsin. Jim S

I wish you had a clear answer here Jim. The facts are this...sorry if UW doesn't support your findings, but the vast majority of the medical field I work in does...this crap is bad, look it up. Spend time in the ICU with patients that have turned this for years and are now dying because of it. I'll put my medical license on the wall to support the findings...will you?
You would find yourself in a better place keeping people safe rather than supporting destructive technique.
I'm happy you are 70 +??. Please help others get there too.

First, above everything else, let me publicly apologize to Jim Burr for questioning him on this subject in the first place. It is not like me to take something at face value without doing research on the subject. I asked my friend next door ,who is a retired surgen and a member of The Board Of Regents for the University of Wisconsin, Madison. He was 99.9% sure that antler was bone, but put me in touch with someone at the University that would know 100%. I was wrong in my belief for over 50 years and should have checked into it long ago. I have always said that any dust is not good for you to breathe, I don't, however, see where that is supporting destructive techniques. The original question was ,"is breathing in the dust harmful to you" My answer was YES. The rest of my statement that I gave was wrong I found out!!! Again, Jim, Please except my apopogy for questoning you on this matter. You are right, I am wrong!!!! Jim S

 

[Jim Burr]

I made a few phone calls, I have been inlightened by experts that all antlers are bone, and an extension of the skull, but all horns are not antlers. The difference being the Keratin being found in some horns. The velvet on the antlers contains the blood rich neutrents that supply the antler in order to grow. Caution should still be taken when drilling or sanding. I am sorry if I have missled anyone!! But it is what I was told and believed until today. After reading several journals, I questioned my own sorces and desided to get the correct answer from those that knew for sure. Thanks to the University of Wisconsin. Jim S

I wish you had a clear answer here Jim. The facts are this...sorry if UW doesn't support your findings, but the vast majority of the medical field I work in does...this crap is bad, look it up. Spend time in the ICU with patients that have turned this for years and are now dying because of it. I'll put my medical license on the wall to support the findings...will you?
You would find yourself in a better place keeping people safe rather than supporting destructive technique.
I'm happy you are 70 +??. Please help others get there too.

First, above everything else, let me publicly apologize to Jim Burr for questioning him on this subject in the first place. It is not like me to take something at face value without doing research on the subject. I asked my friend next door ,who is a retired surgen and a member of The Board Of Regents for the University of Wisconsin, Madison. He was 99.9% sure that antler was bone, but put me in touch with someone at the University that would know 100%. I was wrong in my belief for over 50 years and should have checked into it long ago. I have always said that any dust is not good for you to breathe, I don't, however, see where that is supporting destructive techniques. The original question was ,"is breathing in the dust harmful to you" My answer was YES. The rest of my statement that I gave was wrong I found out!!! Again, Jim, Please except my apopogy for questoning you on this matter. You are right, I am wrong!!!! Jim S

Jim...I wish I could give a flying crap if you were wrong or right. The fact is that I want everyone who turns, saws, grinds or sweeps out their fireplace to be safe, take care of themselves, their families and other wood workers. I work with surgeons that are great cutters and dumb as rocks when it comes to anything else...who cares. Anyone who has 3 brain cells left can look up the same info...I teach it so I don't expect your neighbor, professor, CEO or whoever to know what antler is and does.
Last time on this thread...if you care about your family, friends or yourself...you will cover up, research your material and take the means necessary to prolong your life. I do not want to see you, nor do you want to see me in an ER. Get it straight, get it right and do it right...got it? I am at your disposal from 0600 to 2000 at 559-273-1773 to explain why macrophages can't handle silicate and related material. If I don't answer, I'm asleep or taking care of the people you wonder about.

 

[plantman]

I made a few phone calls, I have been inlightened by experts that all antlers are bone, and an extension of the skull, but all horns are not antlers. The difference being the Keratin being found in some horns. The velvet on the antlers contains the blood rich neutrents that supply the antler in order to grow. Caution should still be taken when drilling or sanding. I am sorry if I have missled anyone!! But it is what I was told and believed until today. After reading several journals, I questioned my own sorces and desided to get the correct answer from those that knew for sure. Thanks to the University of Wisconsin. Jim S

I wish you had a clear answer here Jim. The facts are this...sorry if UW doesn't support your findings, but the vast majority of the medical field I work in does...this crap is bad, look it up. Spend time in the ICU with patients that have turned this for years and are now dying because of it. I'll put my medical license on the wall to support the findings...will you?
You would find yourself in a better place keeping people safe rather than supporting destructive technique.
I'm happy you are 70 +??. Please help others get there too.

First, above everything else, let me publicly apologize to Jim Burr for questioning him on this subject in the first place. It is not like me to take something at face value without doing research on the subject. I asked my friend next door ,who is a retired surgen and a member of The Board Of Regents for the University of Wisconsin, Madison. He was 99.9% sure that antler was bone, but put me in touch with someone at the University that would know 100%. I was wrong in my belief for over 50 years and should have checked into it long ago. I have always said that any dust is not good for you to breathe, I don't, however, see where that is supporting destructive techniques. The original question was ,"is breathing in the dust harmful to you" My answer was YES. The rest of my statement that I gave was wrong I found out!!! Again, Jim, Please except my apopogy for questoning you on this matter. You are right, I am wrong!!!! Jim S

Jim...I wish I could give a flying crap if you were wrong or right. The fact is that I want everyone who turns, saws, grinds or sweeps out their fireplace to be safe, take care of themselves, their families and other wood workers. I work with surgeons that are great cutters and dumb as rocks when it comes to anything else...who cares. Anyone who has 3 brain cells left can look up the same info...I teach it so I don't expect your neighbor, professor, CEO or whoever to know what antler is and does.
Last time on this thread...if you care about your family, friends or yourself...you will cover up, research your material and take the means necessary to prolong your life. I do not want to see you, nor do you want to see me in an ER. Get it straight, get it right and do it right...got it? I am at your disposal from 0600 to 2000 at 559-273-1773 to explain why macrophages can't handle silicate and related material. If I don't answer, I'm asleep or taking care of the people you wonder about.

Parting shot. I can see why you are what you are!! You can't even take an apology without going on a rant. I couldn't find you listed in Reno anywhere, although I'm sure you live there. And the phone mumber you gave me is a Sprint Spectrum Lp Cell phone in Fresno, CA. You don't have any respect for anybody or anything!! And even if your job was scrubing the blood off the ER floor, I wouldn't want you near me in the hospital. And by the way, a macrophage is a polymorphonuclear leukocyte that is phagacytic, which means it is a cell that surronds and absorbs waste material, foreign bodys, or microorganisms in the blood stream. A white blood cell. Silicate is a compound containing silicone, oxygen, and one or more metals, and is known as a salt of silicic acid. There aren't to many acids or metals that are good for your body, but, than again, your the expert. I wish you well in life. Jim S

 

[TimS124]

Phillip - nice work on the pen! Looks like you have some more raw material lurking under that pen for future projects! I really like pairing gun metal with antler.

Don't let the skinny tip fool you into thinking it's too narrow to be useful. I've made iPad styluses, letter opener, and several bottle openers out of those. You just need the cut end to be wide enough for a short tube (all of those projects used a 7mm tube and the original tube from a stubby stylus is fine at roughly 1" long though I have one bottle opener with an even shorter tube than that...works fine).

For the stylus, the user's hands have to be over the portion with the tube, so a long tube is better, but a curved tine fits very comfortably in the hand during use (which puts the user's fingers right down by the tube so it works).

In addition to a powered, filtered turning mask, I also have dust collection at the lathe while turning/sanding antler...and for the natural-tipped items, I use the mask plus dust collection at the desktop sander where I hand-shape the tines.

I also have an overhead air filter going (for the really fine stuff that doesn't like to settle down) and vacuum the work area afterwards as well (to get the stuff that dust collection missed).

 

[Ambidex]

Is the smell or the dust from antler that is supposed to be toxic? Here is antler harvested from a white tail deer in southeast Arkansas, on a "Classic" gun metal kit. It is a commissioned piece that I am going to
send off & have the name lazer engraved....any suggestions?:wink:

Got lost in the other posts for a little Last I saw the question posted for laser engraving one of our members called Sub Vet 10 said his father-in-law did it in Houston did engraving. Might want to contact him...Very nice pen by the way! Love antler pens:biggrin: