Segmented Lucite, Casein, Styrene, and Aluminum Issue

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wiset1

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NEED A LITTLE HELP!

I was working on a pretty simple segmented design this weekend and the cap keeps working against me. My first try chunked out the Casein on both sides so I took the ends down to the brass tube and added new casein (ALT). As seen in the picture the cap cracked again so at this point I'm ready to take up drinking.

My question is...do you think the pen would look fine with a solid Alt Casein cap or should I try the design again?

*Material: Alt Casein, Scarlet Rose Lucite, Black Styrene, and Aluminum accent.

Thoughts????
1_Segment_Crack.jpg
 
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wiset1

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Upon closer inspection I see a small crack starting on the lower barrel so I might just wash the whole idea and salvage the kit and start over:mad:
 

MartinPens

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I like the design, but I feel it would need to go on a simpler, less ornate kit. If you could do a less ornate kit that allows for thicker diameters, that is really a WOW pen!! Wonderful combo and contrast of colors. Stunning. What other kits work with those tubes? The crack could be hidden under the clip and still be used (I know someone who would use it! : ) ). I would keep the design and find a work around.

Martin

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wiset1

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True, I could hide it under the clip, but I worry that it will advance and I just can't bring myself to give a pen away that may fall apart down the road...you know?
 

wiset1

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If you're up for redoing all four ends you could select a different material to replace the casein.

Not sure that the problem was the Alt Casein...I've never had an issue with it before. Not to say that I could have prevented this, but I'm wondering how to save and resolve.:question:
 

vallealbert

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To avoid the crack to advance, use a very thin drill bit and make a hole at the tip of the crack... it always works in wood...why not in other material?...of course, the little hole will be hidden with the clip... just think about it.
 

wiset1

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I may have to pull this off of the kit and turn it back down to the brass...

Some good ideas so far
 
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I have had the same results with Casein in the past. I have tried a few process steps in my drilling schedule to change this, the one that works best fro me with larger diameters is to step drill, usually start with 3/8, then drill to size. HEat is the problem I find and opening up the blank with a pilot hole allows less friction, open air at the opposite end and clean removal of material with a light cut on the final size pass. This is what works for me.
 

G1Pens

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Beautiful design. If you can save it, I think it is beautiful. I would try salvage it and hide the crack under the clip...after doing something to keep the crack from advancing...if that is possible.
 

ed4copies

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Tim,
I believe it could be done.
Jim,
I think you are talking about casein and I am fairly certain Tim is using Alt Casein. While the names are similar, the properties are very different.

To make this work, personally, I would make certain my hole is absolutely centered. The tube is smaller than the hole, leaving a gap sometimes. This is, I beleve, where your problem starts. If you have to, pack the space between the alt casein and the tube with white dyed epoxy, to give the alt casein a good base.

Obviously, when you turn, exceptionally high speed and razor thin cuts as you approach the end.

I like the finished pen so much, I may try this during the Summer. Quite confident it can be done.

(but I would NOT try it with real casein)

FWIW!
 

mrburls

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Tim, This an awesome looking design. Not give up on it. I may have to try something like this. Really like it :good::good:

Keith "mrburls"
 

PenPal

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HI Tim from down here to over there.

Curious which glue you use, reason the Poly Glues have just that tiny bit necessary in the way of give under pressure. Also double or treble drilling is fraught with danger on reentry the minute grab can create the potential problem, perhaps a same size of taper drill before the steps would cushion the entry. There a some pretty schmick new drills out there these days worth a look. I do remember the first pen I made thinking what a disaster waiting to happen when Slimlines were turned so skinny, have questioned pen kit designs ever since. Skinny may be beautiful in models on the catwalk but a split waiting in the wings when making pens.

The next thing I thought was do you turn between centres pressure from a tapered pointed either end not using parrallel bushes in between a recipe for splitting in skinny circumstances. I am convinced in my tiny mind to continue using a mandrel recessed in the live centre in the tailstock 3/8 of an inch in the brass sleeve I fit into the live centre. All turning stresses are then shared in many places. I have done this for fourteen years and only half a pen at a time.

After this heat stress for heat sensitive material is to be careful of. Anyway wrong of me to try teaching Grannie how to suck eggs.

Finally no amount of convincing will assure me to cut off a blank brass and reuse its frail enough in the first place, brass for me comes in as many brews as Heinz Soups, they all have characteristics and vary in hardness, like the makers of Rebar the makers tend to chuck in what they have at the time in the furnace, the colour varies a lot in brass tubes tells me this is so. Initially 15 or more years ago I bought two hundred spare brasses so I would not be tempted to reuse them ever.

When I buy from folks like Timberbits.com he makes packages to include extras such as spare tubes always stocks them, he impresses me very much, David ie.

I share with you the hurt of your problems trust your getting all over them for the future, some timbers such as African true Ebony and also from elsewhere Snakewood command utmost respect as I suggest the problem material you are working with right now but as the Astronaut said breakthroughs make it all worthwhile in the end.

Am a great respecter of your search for perfection have fun on the way.

Kind regards Peter.
 

bitshird

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That is a beautiful pen, I've had one pen develop a crack several months after it was turned, but it was the real Casein That combination is just too pretty not to try again, I didn't think the Alternate Casein was prone to cracking like the real stuff was, I've done 5 real ones and only had one crack.
 

wiset1

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Tim,
I believe it could be done.
Jim,
I think you are talking about casein and I am fairly certain Tim is using Alt Casein. While the names are similar, the properties are very different.

To make this work, personally, I would make certain my hole is absolutely centered. The tube is smaller than the hole, leaving a gap sometimes. This is, I beleve, where your problem starts. If you have to, pack the space between the alt casein and the tube with white dyed epoxy, to give the alt casein a good base.

Obviously, when you turn, exceptionally high speed and razor thin cuts as you approach the end.

I like the finished pen so much, I may try this during the Summer. Quite confident it can be done.

(but I would NOT try it with real casein)

FWIW!

Hi Ed,

First of all, the lucite and Alt Casein turned like a dream!

I started by doing some post drilling and worked up to the larger bit to avoid blowout. I also left about a quarter inch on each side and then sanded down to brass...this could have caused the issue...? Too much heat sanding down the excess.

I used medium CA to secure the layers together, and the rubberized CA for the tube to avoid issues with vibration. I also reverse painted the blank white.

I guess the general thought is to save it...I'll see what I can do as time allows. I really want this to work since I purchased lucite and Alt Casein for this purpose. I'm sure I'll work it out:redface:
 

areaman

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I was also thinking heat may have caused this. I found when drilling through the aluminum the blank gets really hot. I was going rather slow and was really suprised at how hot my blank got.
 

corian king

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I would really try to save it.That is a very beautiful design and looks great on that kit.It would be a shame to lose all that nice work.
JIM
 

wiset1

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Thanks for all the feedback everyone! I'll try this weekend to turn the Casein off of the tube and fit it with new bits. I may also do a CA finish on it to secure it and hold it all together in the event it happens again.

Thanks again everyone!
 
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