Learning how to do CA

[ChewTerr]

I'm still really novice at this, but I wanted to give CA finish a shot. This is both my first cigar pen as well as my first CA finish. It's a little messy (like at the far right, near the cap/clip), but it's a start. Went through a surprising amount of CA in making the pen, though.

I kind of did it trial and error style. I did a couple of coats of thin, sanded if I saw white mess, and repeated. Eventually I wet-micromeshed into oblivion. Anything I should try next time to improve things? Is it worth experimenting with activator when the thin CA dries so quickly?

I was really nervous to post this. Everybody else's pens look so professional, even people who are only posting their first pens! Also, I wasn't sure this shouldn't be in the finishing forum, since I fished for advice on CA.

 

[jsolie]

A good CA finish does have a learning curve. Good job trying it. What type of wood is that?

When I first started doing CA finishes, I was going through it like crazy, gluing paper towels to myself, or to the piece. I've had to sand it off and back to bare wood a few times. But it does get easier the more you do it.

I no longer use paper towels to apply the CA, but use a 1" or so wide strip of 2mm thick white craft foam I got from Hobby Lobby. It almost acts like a little squeegee spreading the CA around on the pen. It always surprises me how much one little drop of thin CA can cover. The surface it leaves is a lot smoother than with paper towels and requires less sanding with 400.

I do use an aerosol activator, just a very quick blast maybe every 4 - 5 applications.

 

[CREID]

Don't hit yourself too hard. My first attempt at CA went surprisingly well, it was the next 10 that really went bad. It is a system that you have to figure out what works for you and the only way to do that is to keep doing it. My system works for me almost all the time now. I still have a hiccup every now and then. It looks like you may have sanded through the CA on the end there, hard to tell from the photo. Just keep doing it and it will come and improve over time. As for the craft foam someone else mentioned, I have it and have yet to use it, I need to try it.

Curt

 

[ChewTerr]

Thanks for the response! I think the wood is cocobolo, but almost all of my blanks are hand-me down gifts from family to help get me started.

I no longer use paper towels to apply the CA, but use a 1" or so wide strip of 2mm thick white craft foam I got from Hobby Lobby.

That's really interesting, I'll have to check that out. What section would I find it in? Can it be reused, or does it come cheaply enough to be disposable?

Do you use the activator with thin, thick, or both?

 

[CREID]

Like I said, I haven't used the craft foam yet, but I have it. I just went to the craft store and said I need craft foam and they walked me over to it. As for the activator, I use it on every coat. I do 3 or 4 thin and 5 or 6 medium. I really have to learn to count my coats, I can never remember how may exactly.:biggrin:

Curt

 

[Skie_M]

I generally do 6 - 9 coats of whatever thickness the generic superglue sold by harbor freight is. I've not really had any issues with it, other than the initial learning curve everybody talks about.


I had the benefit of catching a few of Captain Eddie's youtube videos concerning his "encased in glass" CA finish. I also looked around and saw how a few others were applying CA finish to pens and other things.

It only took a few tries for me to get the hang of it .... Just make sure you have a small puddle to work with on top the applicator, don't linger in one spot for more than half a second, and complete your swipes across your blanks within a span of about 3 seconds and you'll be good to go.

 

[randy kelly]

Google,My simple
C/A finish by colin nelson.That's what I use

 

[ChewTerr]

Google,My simple
C/A finish by colin nelson.That's what I use

Looks like the link is this: My Simple CA Finish

The method seems like an interesting variation on the standard themes, with a bag and finger to smooth CA applied directly to the wood. It sounds like he only uses two coats? Is it really done in two passes, or did he gloss over others (pun intended)?

And Skie, I'll check out Captain Eddie's glass videos as well!

 

[1080Wayne]

Re craft foam use : For me , it works best to apply a straight line bead of thin CA across the 1 inch width rather than a drop in the center , holding this to the underside center line of the spinning barrel , then moving it rapidly side to side until it just starts to feel draggy . I never use accelerator on thin CA . The foam piece can be used again , but NOT the same area of it , as the CA which has dried upon it is apt to give you a rough surface . And if you are super cheap like me you can even use both sides of it , although it enhances glue transfer to the fingers .

 

[Sappheiros]

Nice job!

 

[ChewTerr]

Nice job!

Thanks! While it's definitely not perfect, I'd only turned a bunch of Sierras and a Tetra before, so it looks drastically different from anything I have. It feels nice to have a finished product that, while imperfect, is drastically different from the rest in my roll-up storage thingamabobber.

 

[jsolie]

That's really interesting, I'll have to check that out. What section would I find it in? Can it be reused, or does it come cheaply enough to be disposable?

Do you use the activator with thin, thick, or both?

I don't recall what part of the store it was in, but a 12"x18" piece of 2mm craft foam was something like 89 cents. I cut a strip about an inch wide and a few inches long. I trim it back a little bit when there's a buildup of CA so as to use a "fresh" section of craft foam. I can usually get several pens done in one 6" or so section of foam.

What I like is that I can put the CA towards one edge or the other of the craft foam to better get to one of the ends of the piece I'm finishing. Usually the first bit of CA goes in the center of the foam strip. Then towards the left side of the foam strip as I'm finishing the left side of the blank, or to the right side of the foam if I need to get a bit more on the right side of the blank. It kind of depends on how the CA is going onto the blank, if that even makes sense.

I do use a quick shot of activator every 4-5 applications of thin CA. I don't really keep track, but I don't do it very often. Usually when I'm having to change something up, trim something, or get interrupted.

When I was using paper towels, if I used medium CA, I was never happy with the finish and would have to sand back to bare wood and start over. So I stuck with the thin for finishing. Since things have worked out so well for me with the craft foam, I can get away with using medium and not messing things up that I have to restart. A little bit of medium seems to go a long way for me now.

Anyway, try it and see if it works for you. I know that some people have tried the craft foam and have stuck with paper towels since it worked out better for them. Some folks have success using the little plastic bags that their pen components come in. My son found success in using a piece of paper with part of a paper towel folded around it. There's lots of ways to get the CA on the pen. The trick is finding a method or two that tend to work for you.

 

[Sabaharr]

We have all been there. Over the years I have tried many way and revised my method several times to get to the method I use now, and that last revision was just a few months ago. I have to admit though that it is the easiest and best results finish I have gotten so far. Keep trying until you are happy with it because it is worth the effort to perfect your method.

 

[Hoover015]

Been There, Done That

As the other turners mentioned, just give it a little time and don't become discouraged. I have been turning pens for eight years and five of that as a business in Salado TX. I use the CA Thin from Penn State and apply with a small piece of paper towel. I turn my lathe speed down and apply from six to eight thin coats, sanding with micro mesh between coats, then wiping off the blank with a damp paper towel. I finish off the pen using Barrett-Jackson liquid wax from WalMart. This seems to work best for me. I do think that I will try applying the CA with the foam as mentioned just to learn a new technique. Thanks.

 

[Brian Chislett]

I ave been using medium CA for some time (7 to 10 coats) and have taught others how to apply same. Don't look at each individual application, the next layer will cover it. Regarding the Accelerator, what's the hurry? You have spend quite some time producing the perfect pen, a few seconds more between coats will do no harm. Always use eye protection and stand to one side out of the line of fire when applying CA. I always apply boiled linseed oil , to enhance the grain, for the very first coat.

Take time off before final sanding, let things cure well. Being a Brit. I always make a "cuppa" tea, then go though the grades up to 12,000.

Tootlepip!
Brian.

 

[Drewboy22]

As the other turners mentioned, just give it a little time and don't become discouraged. I have been turning pens for eight years and five of that as a business in Salado TX. I use the CA Thin from Penn State and apply with a small piece of paper towel. I turn my lathe speed down and apply from six to eight thin coats, sanding with micro mesh between coats, then wiping off the blank with a damp paper towel. I finish off the pen using Barrett-Jackson liquid wax from WalMart. This seems to work best for me. I do think that I will try applying the CA with the foam as mentioned just to learn a new technique. Thanks.

What grit do you sand with? Do you hit it with a quick 800 to knock off the high spots or something finer like 1500?

 

[Freethinker]

..... try it and see if it works for you. I know that some people have tried the craft foam and have stuck with paper towels since it worked out better for them. Some folks have success using the little plastic bags that their pen components come in. My son found success in using a piece of paper with part of a paper towel folded around it. There's lots of ways to get the CA on the pen. The trick is finding a method or two that tend to work for you.

I long ago stopped using paper towels, and now use 1" strips of wax paper. Too much, it seemed to me, of the CA soaked into the paper towel pieces and became hard, which puts ridges in the CA.

The wax paper is more like a squeegee in terms of application, and wastes FAR less of the CA. Like you say, it's just what works best for each person.

 

[jsolie]

I long ago stopped using paper towels, and now use 1" strips of wax paper. Too much, it seemed to me, of the CA soaked into the paper towel pieces and became hard, which puts ridges in the CA.

The wax paper is more like a squeegee in terms of application, and wastes FAR less of the CA. Like you say, it's just what works best for each person.

I hadn't thought of wax paper, that ought to work as well. Sounds like both the wax paper and craft foam act like a squeegee.

Have you had any issue with the wax melting, or otherwise, getting onto the pen?

 

[Skie_M]

There should be virtually NO FRICTION between the applicator and the pen blank. The idea is to "float" the CA onto the blank, leaving no ridges behind, and letting the CA flow freely, but not so much of it at one time that it gets flung off the blank and all over you and your shop.

 

[iMattDaddy]

I've made only 3 pens, so you may want to take my experience with a whole lot of salt. Although I was using CA to finish some wood rings prior to trying pens, so most of my trials came there.

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned yet that I do is apply in very very thin coats. I wonder if the white mess that you're seeing is from applying too much CA at once, it doesn't dry as uniformly as it goes on when wet. A very thin coat 6-10 times or whatever number you like will come out better than 1-2 heavy coats. I probably apply 5 or so coats, then sand with 400, then apply more coats as needed. Then sand to 1500 to get the final coats completely uniform (sounds like I need to sand further still to 12,000). Then the last thing I do is use a car clear coat polish. I personally used Meguiars because that's what I've all ways liked to use on my vehicles. 2-3 passes with polish and that's it. But of course like I said I've only done 3 and so my method will no doubt change.

 

[Skie_M]

I've made only 3 pens, so you may want to take my experience with a whole lot of salt. Although I was using CA to finish some wood rings prior to trying pens, so most of my trials came there.

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned yet that I do is apply in very very thin coats. I wonder if the white mess that you're seeing is from applying too much CA at once, it doesn't dry as uniformly as it goes on when wet. A very thin coat 6-10 times or whatever number you like will come out better than 1-2 heavy coats. I probably apply 5 or so coats, then sand with 400, then apply more coats as needed. Then sand to 1500 to get the final coats completely uniform (sounds like I need to sand further still to 12,000). Then the last thing I do is use a car clear coat polish. I personally used Meguiars because that's what I've all ways liked to use on my vehicles. 2-3 passes with polish and that's it. But of course like I said I've only done 3 and so my method will no doubt change.

Thin coats is something to remember, as you will get that white mess much less often. If there's too much and the vapors can't get away fast enough, they solidify as that white powdery mess you see .... more CA applied on top and there you have it! A white haze inside your CA finish that you can't buff out.

Another thing is ... do NOT use the accelerator if you don't have to. Too much accel can make the CA bubble up, and that gives you a white mess too.


I would say that 400 is a might too aggressive with thin coats of CA ... you'ld be sanding off at least half of what you just put on, and be leaving tons of 400-grit ridges behind to boot. In high spots (rounded areas of beads), you might even sand straight through the CA back down to the wood, and that's a waste of time and resources. I would go with 1000 grit, as it's a lot less aggressive and leaves much much finer scratches that you can remove with micromesh.

Another thing you could try is to hit it with an application or two of PlastX or One-Step right after the 1000 grit, and then take a good close look a the scratches that are left.

 

[edstreet]

Way to much fail here.


White spots caused from water not from accelerator. If your accelerator is causing this then go get some real accelerator.

Large amounts of CA is not a problem if using the right type / style of CA.

 

[Skie_M]

Way to much fail here.


White spots caused from water not form accelerator. If your accelerator is causing this then go some real accelerator.

Large amounts of ca is not a problem if using the right type / style of ca.

Dude, seriously, go troll some bridge in brooklyn.

 

[edstreet]

I'm still really novice at this, but I wanted to give CA finish a shot. This is both my first cigar pen as well as my first CA finish. It's a little messy (like at the far right, near the cap/clip), but it's a start. Went through a surprising amount of CA in making the pen, though.

I kind of did it trial and error style. I did a couple of coats of thin, sanded if I saw white mess, and repeated. Eventually I wet-micromeshed into oblivion. Anything I should try next time to improve things? Is it worth experimenting with activator when the thin CA dries so quickly?

I was really nervous to post this. Everybody else's pens look so professional, even people who are only posting their first pens! Also, I wasn't sure this shouldn't be in the finishing forum, since I fished for advice on CA.

Your photo shows wicking effects on the ends of the tube. Which means the ends are not sealed and the 'wet' sanding you did put water into the blank. White spots is the results. It is how CA works in the presence of moisture. Use of a surface insensitive brand helps greatly with that and it is not from accelerator usage (providing you are using a real accelerator and not some garbage one)

White spots in CA is called BLOOM.

Q: What is blooming?

A: Blooming or frosting is a phenomenon that occurs when cyanoacrylate monomer volatilizes off a part, reacts with moisture in the surrounding environment, and falls back down on the part leaving a white powdery residue behind.

What should also be added is low odor or odorless is less likely to bloom as well. These are your higher quality CA types.

Answer to your accelerator question is yes get a good accelerator and use that; also yes it needs to be used on THIN as well. Consult the MSDS and if it contains acetone then toss it and move to another one. Acetone is very bad in the grand scheme of things when it comes to finishes. Also by using non-acetone based accelerators you are opening the door to more benefits, read added strength and flexibility. Remember the faster and hotter the polymerization happens the more brittle the end result will be. Also the faster the polymerization happens the more you will have uneven curing, which leads to the shattered glass effect.

The volume of CA required differs depending on what is needing to be done. The fail that most here engage in is the 'method' given only applies to thin layer protection and never sculpting or building up or filling in of low spots. In fact if you looked at most of the 'coat' methods you will quickly find it substantially sub-par for building up very low spots.

The second area that most fail to realize is that not all CA is equal. There are brand formula differences and then there are additives. This allows you to have better results in different areas that can be utilized to your benefit. Those benefits happen to be things like: not being forced to use the 'coat' method, using different techniques that brings out better performance or a longer lifespan. Consult the MSDS and call the manufacture and ask them directly and the first thing you will quickly see is what I stated is true.

 

[wyone]

lots of practice.. lots of failures.. and you will soon find what works best for you. I typically use 4-5 thin coats of CA, some gentle Micromesh work, then switch and put on 8-10 coats of medium CA and then I can sand with micromesh again. Is that the best way? I don't know, but it works for me so I do it. Please do not hesitate to ask questions here. We all learn from the responses.

Another thing to try if you are struggling to get the finish you like is to buy a bottle of Pens Plus... or use the BLO and CA method I think this is the link https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...view=detail&mid=DA3CA1FE265A8C206F9CDA3CA1FE2

 

[ChewTerr]

Thank everybody for the informative responses! Tons of good information to dig through

I ave been using medium CA for some time (7 to 10 coats) and have taught others how to apply same.

On this, a quick question -- what makes you prefer the medium? I had gotten the impression that it builds up faster but has a higher risk of issues.

Anyhow, thanks again for all of the information, even those that I am not responding to here. Going to be reading through this whole thread again before I finish my next pen. For what it's worth, I did turn another pen (a segmented Sierra) with a CA finish, and the finish looked a little better this time. I'm going to try implementing suggestions from here, in addition to using practice to keep smoothing everything out.