Backing my Comments

[beck3906]

There's a thread where it's stated that someone should show their work to prove they can make a pen if they want to comment on other's work. I've posted a couple of photos in the past, but nothing in the last couple of years.

I've been hesitant to comment on others work because it often leads to hurt feelings or not wanting to accept true criticism. Many people only want the slap on the back and the comments that make them feel good. Personally, I gain from all comments, so let them rip.

Now, some of these photos are of work that's 6-7 years ago, so my quality has gone up. This is a start, as I have a lot more getting ready to show soon. Let's just say this begins my justification of commenting.

 

[seamus7227]

Not too shaby Rick! Im glad you posted some pics finally! But I know those arent your "A" Game so quit holding out on us!!!

 

[OKLAHOMAN]

I know some of the pens in waiting, your in for an eye pleasing trip if Rick post some of his latest work.

 

[PenMan1]

They all look good from here, Rick! I like everything you've posted except those little round tags..... And that's a personal thing

 

[OKLAHOMAN]

One of my pet peeves. He will be changing I'm sure!

They all look good from here, Rick! I like everything you've posted except those little round tags..... And that's a personal thing

 

[Displaced Canadian]

The majestic looks real classy and the music note one looks fun. I'm not a fan of deer antler as a pen materiel but that's just me.

 

[Jgrden]

I don't like the shape of the Atlas, second in the first photo.

So there, criticism!!!

 

[1080Wayne]

I second John`s criticism . And don`t worry about making an occasional comment . Penturning seems to be somewhat like real life - some get their kicks by commenting on everything , leaving you and I to sort a lot of chaff from the wheat .

 

[crabcreekind]

Slim up the shapes on the cigar, polaris, and rollerball in the 1st pic. Other than that, they are pretty much perfect.
O and when taking pics of the majestic. Lay the cap the other way, so you can see the clip and the crystal.

 

[beck3906]

I laughed when I read Seamus and Roy's comments as both know what I've been buying up. Yes, there are some really good things in the making. Even Andy is in on the upcoming releases as I just bought some upper end kits from him. The kits should pair up nicely with some of the blanks I have stocked.

The jewelry tags are for shows where I need to price things due to the buyer atitude. Some shows need obvious pricing to please the shopper. I now primarily use the button tags for ease in taking the tag off. I will be offering a different pricing idea for new shows this fall.

I appreciate the comments about the pens needing a slimmer look. The ones pictured here happen to be a few from several years back where I was making things a bit heavier looking. All of the deer antlers sold over 5 years ago...Someone liked them. So, excuse me if I don't listen to your comments as I'll make more of them. :biggrin:

Our opinion about what a pen should look like and the opinion of the buying public is sometimes 180 degrees different. I make most of the pens with a slimmer look and make a few with the fatter look because everyone wants something different. Don't limit yourself to "the box" because of your own personal preferences in style. I've made pens I thought were butt-ugly but eventually found a buyer.

 

[robutacion]

There's a thread where it's stated that someone should show their work to prove they can make a pen if they want to comment on other's work. I've posted a couple of photos in the past, but nothing in the last couple of years.

I've been hesitant to comment on others work because it often leads to hurt feelings or not wanting to accept true criticism. Many people only want the slap on the back and the comments that make them feel good. Personally, I gain from all comments, so let them rip.

Now, some of these photos are of work that's 6-7 years ago, so my quality has gone up. This is a start, as I have a lot more getting ready to show soon. Let's just say this begins my justification of commenting.

First of all, those pens from your beginnings, show precisely that the "fat belly" beginners syndrome. Take is a stage and people start to trim thing slightly as they go, you were no different...!

What brought my attention, was your statement marked in red, and while I understand your view point, I just don't see how, clicking on the button "like" to save saying anything, or adding a "nice pen" statement is of any help to someone that are showing their work so that others with a little more experience (or not), can give honest opinions of the work presented.

They will learn nothing, if they are constantly denied the constructive criticism that they require to hear, so that they can go back and improve...!

There are exceptions to any rule, sure but, there are ways to be fair and be truthful and not having to be offensive or unpleasant about it. One thing is for sure, anyone (and I am no exception) that display their made items in here, do so because they want to show them, and from the moment they do, they should expect the various "reactions", as a result, simple...!

Sure, no one likes to spend a considerable amount of time making something and then, be told that there is something not quite right however, most of the times this happens, the maker already knew of the problem/situation, showing it only demonstrates how quick and or easy the issue was detected and pointed out so, for the maker is no surprise or get hurt feelings, it all became a sort of "game", that I actually like to play...!

Cheers
George

 

[leehljp]

Rick,

I know that you have seen those comments for a long time about not commenting unless you have posted picts. Hey, there were argument going on about this back when you and I joined IAP.

It is kinda silly to me. But I am glad to see your picts and it is easy to distinguish the progress!

 

[mikespenturningz]

Thanks guys and gals

I learned so much when I first joined here from critical comments that just helped me to grow. I would like to thanks all those that helped me along he way with my pen turning. I have posted in several of the threads here for help and you guys always step up and mentor. I thank you all.

Oh nice pens too!

 

[beck3906]

Hey, George,
Those pens aren't from my early turning stage of "fat belly" pens. I've been making pens for about 12 years. Those pens are from my "make what the customer buys" stage. :wink:

Personally, I've made pens so long, I know what's wrong. We can discuss/cuss the finer points of shape, component color selection, or whatever, but it comes down to personal likes when it comes to making something.

A few months/years ago someone wrote they made a pen at a customer request that they personally would not have made because its shape and design was just ugly. To me, there's really no ugly pen, just money to be made.

Reminds me of the joke about the city guy standing next to the rancher as they looked at the cattle in the feed pen. The city guy said it smelled like crap. The rancher took a long, deep breath and said "Smells like money to me". :biggrin:

 

[Andrew_K99]

We must have read the same comment! I just finished building my light box last night so that I can post photos. It was actually a good kick in the butt because I've wanted to build a website and obviously need good pictures if I hope to sell anything. I've just got to mess with the camera settings now and start posting!

Nice lot of pens by the way.

AK

 

[GaryMGg]

First time of heard of Rick's work was from my parents after they moved to the Austin area a number of years ago.
They saw his work at a show and commented to me how good the pens looked.

 

[ed4copies]

I laughed when I read Seamus and Roy's comments as both know what I've been buying up. Yes, there are some really good things in the making. Even Andy is in on the upcoming releases as I just bought some upper end kits from him. The kits should pair up nicely with some of the blanks I have stocked.

The jewelry tags are for shows where I need to price things due to the buyer atitude. Some shows need obvious pricing to please the shopper. I now primarily use the button tags for ease in taking the tag off. I will be offering a different pricing idea for new shows this fall.

I appreciate the comments about the pens needing a slimmer look. The ones pictured here happen to be a few from several years back where I was making things a bit heavier looking. All of the deer antlers sold over 5 years ago...Someone liked them. So, excuse me if I don't listen to your comments as I'll make more of them. :biggrin:

Our opinion about what a pen should look like and the opinion of the buying public is sometimes 180 degrees different. I make most of the pens with a slimmer look and make a few with the fatter look because everyone wants something different. Don't limit yourself to "the box" because of your own personal preferences in style. I've made pens I thought were butt-ugly but eventually found a buyer.

When I arrived at IAP, some years ago, I posted several times and then got a call from a member who said he did not believe I had EVER made a pen. My reply to him was simple: "I honestly don't care WHAT you believe, I have sold more pens than you will make in a lifetime---THAT is what ratifies my work, in my mind." He said a few words and we became VERY GOOD friends.

Some enjoy "SHOWING off their pens". I believe these are, usually, guys who have worked a long time and are pleased with their results. And it is GREAT to share their success and offer suggestions.

For me, and probably you Rick, pens came off the lathe at several per hour. I got my "ratification" of my work when it SOLD. Someone planning on parting with their hard-earned cash is not reluctant to point out any "mismatches" you have on a pen. And there were many guys who saw me several times a year at shows. They also saw several OTHER pen makers at those shows. The fact that they CHOOSE to purchase from you and me says volumes about our work. Not lip-service-----CASH endorsements!!

So for those who think we don't post because our pens are not worthy, they are entitled to their opinion. And, as I said when I met Eagle, "Why should I CARE what you think??"

Live and let live---no need to dictate what another should do.

To those who do post pens, I will continue to comment from time to time with one rule in mind: "Praise in public, give constructive criticism in PM"

Edit in: One other "observation": It is darned near impossible to rate a pen, based on a picture--the light can do strange things to intersections of metal and "pen material"!

 

[Rick P]

Funny I stopped posting because all I ever got was "great pen".......while I appreciate the accolades, it's not very helpful.

As to post a pic of your own work or dont offer a critique......well some folks never grow the &$^% up no matter how old they get! And if your not willing to accept critiques you shouldn't be posting! Forums are for discussion, critique and furthering our craft. Otherwise it's just chest beating.

 

[Displaced Canadian]

You don't have to paint cars to recognize a good paint job from a bad one.

 

[GaryMGg]

...
...if your not willing to accept critiques you shouldn't be posting! Forums are for discussion, critique and furthering our craft....

While I personally agree with your opinion as shown above, it is merely an opinion. And, that is the issue.

While I desire and encourage folks to offer criticism of my work when I post it, I respect the opinions of those who don't.
It's not for you or me to decide if someone else should be accepting criticism of their work.

This topic has been discussed ad nauseum (sp?) along with many others and will never be a settled fact.
At one time, there was an opt-in-required subforum for critical evaluation of work which folks could use in place of SOYP.
You don't see it anymore because it didn't work out--too many hurt feelings, bruised egos, and digital battles.

There are many individuals who don't want criticism of their work AND there are many individuals who don't know how to deliver constructive criticism.
Thus, I suggest you post your work when you choose and if you desire, request constructive criticism. Many of us will gladly provide more than NPGJ. :biggrin::biggrin:

 

[Jjartwood]

Ok let me have it from the old boys club!
Look;there are some post here from people that have displayed some work that could bring tears to your eyes and make you want to sell your tools.
Criticism from them is more like advice from a master.
Others make nice stuff and their criticism is constructive.
Others still offer criticism without qualification
There in lays the problem,You guys that don't post because you feel the lack of
criticism is not helping you don't get it.
A new turner who has just spent hours on end practicing to a point that there isn't
a nonrounded piece of wood left in the shop . Wants advice but......................
Being new to the soyp sight I do not know what you posted years ago,and to blindly trust your creditability is in some sense a leap of faith.So like I said earlier,Lets just agree to disagree and stay friends. OH yea can you say &$^% on this sight?

 

[ed4copies]

Ok let me have it from the old boys club!
Look;there are some post here from people that have displayed some work that could bring tears to your eyes and make you want to sell your tools.
Criticism from them is more like advice from a master.
Others make nice stuff and their criticism is constructive.
Others still offer criticism without qualification
There in lays the problem,You guys that don't post because you feel the lack of
criticism is not helping you don't get it.
A new turner who has just spent hours on end practicing to a point that there isn't
a nonrounded piece of wood left in the shop . Wants advice but......................
Being new to the soyp sight I do not know what you posted years ago,and to blindly trust your creditability is in some sense a leap of faith.So like I said earlier,Lets just agree to disagree and stay friends. OH yea can you say &$^% on this sight?

Although many of us try to be diplomatic, it is not a requirement. The nice thing about any critique you are offered is you have the ABSOLUTE RIGHT to ignore it!!

Ain't always easy and you will see (if you delve into history), I have had more opportunities than most.

I find a cup of coffee (only because I gave up good stiff scotch) and retiring from the keyboard for the night can help.

They won't hurt you, if you don't let them.

But it sometimes takes a LOT of self control OR (and I find this easier) leave the computer---come back later.

Just friendly advice---take it or leave it,

Ed

 

[Jjartwood]

Thanks Ed,

 

[leehljp]

Ok let me have it from the old boys club!

Being new to the soyp sight I do not know what you posted years ago,and to blindly trust your creditability is in some sense a leap of faith.So like I said earlier,Lets just agree to disagree and stay friends. OH yea can you say &$^% on this sight?

OK, you asked for it. :biggrin: It is great to find those that DO want constructive criticism, but most of these people who do are also self critical and as a result are ahead of the game so to speak.

AS to the red above, that is where two insights really help - 1. most people leave their post count on, their join date and many have photos - and these are noted or can be accessed from just under their user name in their post. When I came onto this forum, I looked at those with high post count or with picts. No leap of faith needed to find out who is the real experienced persons here. 2. Search. Search for the person's name and posts to find out if they are controversial or not. For me, when I see a comment on some other non-pen forum, I may no trust their advice but on a forum dedicated to a specific point, The foolheartedly bad advice folks are run out of town on a rail!

I was off for about a year during preparation for a move from Japan back to the States. For some new folks that came in during that year that I didn't know, I did searches and found out their background. There was certainly a leap in the sheer number of top quality pen makers in that one year. I would have been foolish to ignore them just because I didn't "know" them. A simple search on different ones taught me volumes!

To blindly say "I don't know who this old fart so therefore I will not trust him/her" when the resourses and information are there for the taking - is foolish - in the sense that the mistakes that are being made or about to be made could so easily be prevented with information that is already there. It kinda reminds me of an old saying from a father to his son: "Son, if you are going to be dumb, you better be tough." If you are not going to take advice, go ahead and make the mistakes! Experience is the best teacher. :wink:

I know that this "trust" is more or less a particular generation thing, but as for me, I LOOK for those who have blazed the trail before me when I have problems. Sure is less expensive and less frustrating not having to re-invent the wheel.

 

[Jjartwood]

To all involved:
I have made an apology to George (see historic wood pen )and he has been a gentleman
and accepted it.I would extend that apology to those of you on this thread that were
drawn into this either by happenstance or choice.
Thank you
Mark