Autumn Collection
- Thread starter workinforwood
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Whaler
Member
Great looking pens Jeff.
Pioneerpens
Member
beautiful pens. the color and detail is great!
woodchip
Member
Awesome as usual. Have you considered using something like ziricote to give the leaves some texture or pattern?
witz1976
Member
Dang!!! Jeff you out did yourself there. These look OUTSTANDING!!
OKLAHOMAN
Member
Absolutely wonderful, and I'm luck enough to have the original:tongue:..... Now will you please make a spring collection I'm sick of winter:biggrin:.
JohnU
Member
Dalecamino
Local Chapter Leader
Way too cool Jeff . Colors and detail are spot on . Just incredible work .
Bree
Member
They look fantastic. Good work.
:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
workinforwood
Member
I have thought about snowflakes and I pretty much just leave it at a thought only. I am not so sure I want to spend 20 hrs on one penblank. That would be something better suited for a laser. I would ask the laser guys to leave my leaves alone..especially since the leaf pen is a copyright of mine...and they are welcome to have the snowflake pens! :biggrin:
btw...even though it is a copyright of mine, I still welcome anyone to make their own leaf pens and even provide the instructions on my website. I just don't allow you to mass produce and sell them as blanks or mass produced pens. For personal use which can include making a couple as pens that are in your inventory..that is acceptable use. Thank you.
btw...even though it is a copyright of mine, I still welcome anyone to make their own leaf pens and even provide the instructions on my website. I just don't allow you to mass produce and sell them as blanks or mass produced pens. For personal use which can include making a couple as pens that are in your inventory..that is acceptable use. Thank you.
What is copyrighted? Surely not leaves on a pen. Engraved leaves, painted leaves, cloisonne leaves, filigree leaves, etc. have been done for a long time.
theHullTurn
Member
Those look great!
jbostian
Member
Those are great pens! The detail and colors, they are amazing.
Jamie
Jamie
frankhp
Member
Those are amazing.
workinforwood
Member
inlayed wood leaves in a pen, as published by Jeff Powell, 2009. Some of the ones you have mentioned also have some copyrights on them, but also you have to keep in mind the design aspect is the key. So, like you mention a filigree leaf...maybe someone has a copyright on a certain fig leaf design on a filigree, but it's not all filigree leaves..it's his particular designed leaf. I would imagine if you have a laser and you designed your own different leaves, then that would likely fall outside of mine because yours would be completely different. I copyright all my artwork, to protect the design work. So my latest intarsia, the Bee Faerie is copyright protected, but that doesn't mean you can't design a different Bee Faerie that is also an intarsia. It only means you can't take my design and mass produce it.
hewunch
Member
Hey Jeff, those are super sweet! Great work. Now lets gang up on Butch and get him to allow our cigars :biggrin: just kidding Butch.
The reason I ask is that copyright does not protect ideas, only their expression. Copying your exact design would be a violation, but use of the idea would not be a violation. (Simon, Stokes (2001). Art and copyright. Hart Publishing. pp. 48-49. ISBN 9781841132259) Additionally, copyright does not cover the method, i.e. inlaying wood leaves in a pen. Methods/processes are, to the extent allowed, patentable.
Buzzzz4
Member
Excellent work as always, Jeff. Your leaves are a definite favorite of my wife.
razor524
Member
Terrific!
Karin Voorhis
Member
Super beautiful nice work! Every minute hr and more of work you have into this was surely worth the results my eyes are looking at.
workinforwood
Member
Exactly right Lou. As I said, all my drawings are submitted to copyright. So if one man designs a fillegry with a leaf he can copyright it, and another man can still make a fillegry leaf, just not the same design as the first guy. The fact that it is called inlayed wood leaves in a pen, is just a title for the pencil drawn design. You are telling me what I already know, but that's cool..because it may clear things up a bit for others. I do consider myself "shareware". Just like shareware, there is a person that does the design. He shares it with you to use for personal things, like maybe getting yourself a tatoo. He does not share it with you to use as a company logo, or mass produce on T-shirts or coffee mugs. That's copyright by design. In order to copyright your design, you need a simple title description, and that is simply inlaid wood leaves in a pen. So if one of the big companies comes along...you all know what I'm talking about here...and they make what I make, I will bag em and tag em. If they make a bunch of changes, design changes and what not..then I can not stop them, but at the same time, at least their blank won't be the exactly the same as mine. I write articles about the things I do, and the goal is to teach people the technique, so that they can branch off with their own ideas. The leaf pen article is just that. You can build that pen for you..or you can do what I hope you will do, and that is come up with new wild concepts of your own, using my core technique.
Mrs Rojo22
Member
Beautiful!
Robin
Robin
RDH79
Member
Are the blanks going to available to purchase soon?
wdcav1952
Activities Manager Emeritus
Excellent discussion Jeff and Lou. I found it very informative. Now all I have to do is come up with an idea that is worth anything!!
Copyrights are just like patents...in that they are pretty much worthless and a waste of money. All it takes, is a slight alteration from the original design, and the copyright or patent is no longer an issue. This can be anything from adding a line to a color change. As long as it isn't an exact duplicate of the original, it's considered a new design.
That is why these big companies (the same one you refer to Jeff, I'm sure) get away with copying ideas. It's nothing new, it happens all the time.
This came from a couple patent attorney's when I spoke with them. While waiting for your patent to go through, someone can steal your idea and use it also. It has to be submitted and it becomes public information at that point. It takes time, there has to be a search done for any existing patents. Same for copyrights... any alteration to the original, and it's a new design.
Just what I was told from the ones who hold the degree.
That is why these big companies (the same one you refer to Jeff, I'm sure) get away with copying ideas. It's nothing new, it happens all the time.
This came from a couple patent attorney's when I spoke with them. While waiting for your patent to go through, someone can steal your idea and use it also. It has to be submitted and it becomes public information at that point. It takes time, there has to be a search done for any existing patents. Same for copyrights... any alteration to the original, and it's a new design.
Just what I was told from the ones who hold the degree.
DustyDenim
Member
Jeff, all of those pens are awesome looking. I think I like them even more than the autumn pens in your Creative Woodworking and Crafts tutorial, and those were also awesome. Where do you find the time to make all these great blanks. If you ever offer them for sale, I want to be put on the waiting list for ordering some.
johncrane
Member
Fantastic work and pens Jeff! l like the Copper green & gold best.
lorbay
Member
Very nice Jeff
Lin.
Lin.
louisbry
Member
Jeff, your pens are beautiful. I am wondering if you glued your scroll work to the tubes and cast them or cast them first in a mold and then drilled for the tubes.
workinforwood
Member
If you haven't seen the article, you can actually download it right off my website. Each leaf is cut and glued to the tube prior to casting. The back of the leaves are curved to match the pen tube, and they are this way before they are cut! It is difficult to say how many leaves you need for a pen. I do know that it took 600 leaves to make 23 blanks. The space pens are the exact same pen as this, just different in design.
jttheclockman
Member
Jeff as always your work is great and I can appreciate the time and effort that goes into scrolling those little pieces.
Now to your discussion about copyrights If a big gun comes along and does basically what they did with the computer pen and others, and they farm it out to a place that cuts the kits with a lazer and are pretty much identical to your shapes and that is inpossible to do on the first try but they will now have a copy that they can reproduce by the 10000's does that violate your rules??? They are not using your method, the word inlay can not be copyrighted, the shape of leaves can not be copyrighted, the thing that maybe and I am not even sure about that is the idea or concept. Is that what you copyrighted???
By the way the green one is my favorite.
Now to your discussion about copyrights If a big gun comes along and does basically what they did with the computer pen and others, and they farm it out to a place that cuts the kits with a lazer and are pretty much identical to your shapes and that is inpossible to do on the first try but they will now have a copy that they can reproduce by the 10000's does that violate your rules??? They are not using your method, the word inlay can not be copyrighted, the shape of leaves can not be copyrighted, the thing that maybe and I am not even sure about that is the idea or concept. Is that what you copyrighted???
By the way the green one is my favorite.
workinforwood
Member
Yes John, a factory can come along and decide to make lazer leaves on a pen. If they buy one of my pens and duplicate the design, they are in violation. Yes a leaf can be copyright and no it can not...there is a fine line in there. Because you draw the leaves in a certain pattern and style by hand, the fact that you only use these particular leaves and how you use them all factor in to how it can be copyrighted. At the same time, someone else can make similar leaves and add more different types of leaves and make a laser pen and get away with it, but then the pen won't be exactly the same as mine. Some people are probably thinking, there's so many grey areas involved, why bother? I bother because it is a deterent to others that might think about walking down that thin line..that's why. And I have a law firm that handles all my artwork, and it doesn't cost me anything...well it does, but I'm in a group plan, so the cost is minimal. They tell me what they can and can not do...I am not a copyright expert. When my stuff was submitted, they said heck yes, you definitely can and should do that, and so they did. I put a lot of thought into things I do...it's time consuming, and the end result is what I consider to be a phsysical part of my existance. Certain idea's just float into my head. I understand leaves have been on pens before, but not my leaves and not like I do it. So you have to fight to protect it in any way you can. Nothing is fool proof, and sometimes the lines are so thin they are easy to cross, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't draw the lines and make a stand. Now..everyone pretty much knows what I did, and why I did it. I have the right to at least try and protect my designs and ideas. Now lets get back to viewing pens..that's much more entertaining than discussing legal shmegal stuff.
jttheclockman
Member
thewishman
Member
Love the pens! Love the ideas! Love the creativity!
philb
Member
Love the pens, and also the copyright discussion! Very informative!
Just a question, how did you go about submitting for copyright? Just out of interest?
PHIL
Just a question, how did you go about submitting for copyright? Just out of interest?
PHIL
OKLAHOMAN
Member
Jeff and Lou thanks for the info on copyright, for thise intrested here's a link to the U.S. copyright office:http://www.copyright.gov/
workinforwood
Member
You don't have to register something to have a copyright either. There's a million rules, loop holes, fine lines in copyrights. If you just draw a picture, free hand, maybe looking out the window, then it is cut and dry. You can photograph it with a date cam, stick it in a registered envelope, mail it to yourself and don't open it. Done. I have lots of unregistered copyrights. I send everything to the lawyer for evaluation. If he thinks it should be registered, he does. Otherwise, he just files it in his office, and that is unregistered copyright.
If you publish something, then that substantiates your copyright even further. But you give up some rights as well, but mostly to the publisher, not the public. By publishing, you give people the right to duplicate what you did, but not mass duplicate it. I want people to be able to do it, or use the ideas to make their own designs. I just don't want people mass producing my design ideas. You can't copyright a pen, you can't copyright a desk, but you can copyright design plans for a pen or a desk, if you feel it is worthwhile doing so.
I do know a guy that published artwork that he didn't actually make. This is where you have to figure out where that line is. People think that if I change a couple lines here, a few colors different there and now it's completely new. Wrong answer! This guy would take a persons painting or drawing, and load it into a computer program. the program would alter the image into what is known as a fretwork pattern. The fretwork pattern only resembles the likeness of the original, otherwise it is completely different, right? Wrong..that's a law suit where he got pummelled. If you were to take a dragon intarsia that I made, you grab the photo and load it into paint shop and do that funky thing where you stretch out the image all blurry and wild looking, then you put it on t-shirts. Then I will sue you for all the money on those t-shirts. You can't do that. My advice...if you think you have something you need to copyright, trademark, patent, whatever...contact a lawyer. When in doubt, call the lawyer. Heck, you guys got me questioning things with all this legal stuff that I'm not even so sure where the line would be on making a laser leaf pen. It might be ok, or might not be. Of course, if it's quite a bit different than mine, I doubt I'd care too much, but now I have to call my lawyer and ask about that.
I really hadn't intended for my pen post to be about copyrights. I just wanted to show off my leaves. When I made my post I was also working on a bunch of other design work, and it got me into the mode of paranoia. It happens to me every so often, and this site brings it on the most for me, because I see great things from people that end up in the wrong hands all to often. So I issued the warning, just in case one of those, you know who, people was watching.
Now I really just want to look at my pens some more. I'm very proud of them, and thankful for all your wonderful comments. They are even more spectacular in person. When I look at them, sometimes I can't believe I made that! I know that probably sounds weird. I am just particularly proud of these. A lot of my other pens seem to get old to me after awhile, but these never do. Like many things in life..some things you sell and you are happy, and some things you sell and you are sad to see it go.