3Imperials- 2many photos- 1Question

[MartinPens]

Here are three Imperial/Lotus pens made with Amboyna Burl.

Such an amazing wood I couldn't stop taking photos as you can see. Pardon my dust - macro shots show the dust.

Hope I don't get in trouble for too many photos! :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

1 Question = I am beginning to get cloudy patches under the CA glue. I have done much searching on here for the solution. I read one comment about humidity - but I live in S. California so I don't think that's the issue. I wiped down the third pen I did with denatured alcohol prior to finishing to see if that would help.

I'm open - because I do NOT want to refinish these dudes.

Thanks - enjoy the plethora of photos.

 

[hunter-27]

Only info I can offer is generally with CA finishes:
Cloudy = moisture related issues
Dull = oil related issues

My opinion, others may argue or agree and probably will be a mix of both.

 

[wizard]

Beautiful pens !!! I love amboyna burl. The two tone with sapwood is great. Don't ever worry about too many pictures. We like pictures:biggrin:. Awesome job!

 

[jskeen]

Ok, here's my OPINION on this again, take it for what it's worth, but you did ask. In my experience with this issue, there can be multiple issues behind the cloudy whitish areas that crop up under the ca finish on pens. It most commonly is caused by moisture, ie water, that has surfaced under the impermeable layer of ca. Now That is not to say that "the blank was too wet" or "you didn't do something right". Remember, if it was that simple, the entire pen would turn a uniform white. Wood, especially burl wood is not a homogeneous solid of consistent permeability to water. Some parts are denser, some are more porous. Some of these less permeable layers wrap around and encapsulate the more permeable areas (while they are intact) but are removed as the blank is turned to size. Once wood has reached equilibrium with its' environment with regard to moisture, it will reabsorb and transpire moisture as the relative humidity changes, and again, some areas of a given piece of wood will do so at different (sometimes VERY different rates) So, that blank that has been in your shop for the last couple of years and is "DRY" may in fact still be holding a considerably higher moisture content in a few areas that it absorbed last spring. And by turning away parts of the wood, those areas are now exposed.

So...... what good does that do you? Well, probably not much at this point. So here's the punch line. You may be able to get rid of those white areas by exposing the pen to some heat, at low levels for a relatively long time, but there is no guarantee that they won't come back. Sometimes buffing will generate enough heat in the area to redistribute the moisture, and sometimes it will lower the local concentration enough that the cloudy patches won't come back. Sometimes it don't.

For future pens, think about not just is the blank dry, but also, is it at equilibrium with it's current environment. A pen blank mailed from Houston to Southern California may very well be dry... but still transpiring moisture for quite some time till it get to "southern california dry" as opposed to "Houston dry".

And after all that, it may still cloud up. Sometimes life just kinda sucks that way. You can try wiping it with DNA, but remember, DNA also absorbs moisture, and pretty quickly at that. So if it's been sitting around for a while, even in a "sealed" container it may very well have absorbed all the moisture it want's at a given time, if there is a small leak at the seal or such.

Good luck! Oh, and by the way, Nice pens!

 

[rjwolfe3]

Beautiful pens!:biggrin:

I agree with the above, it is either a moisture or oil problem. DNA never works for me on oily wood. I have stopped used CA on those woods. Now that I have said that, I have made many, many Amboyna Burl (my favorite wood) and I have never had a problem with a CA finish on it so I really have no idea on yours.:frown:

 

[MartinPens]

cloudy

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

I don't think it's a moisture problem. These blanks have been cut and in the open air in my garage for the summer with 110 degree plus conditions.

The idea of trapped oils makes sense. Not sure what to do about that though. I could turn them and then set then set them aside.
I use medium CA - I could do an initial layer of thin CA which soaks in and seals a bit more. If it is oils, denatured alcohol makes some sense.

I'm not getting white spots - I'm just losing the glassy shine - I believe the oils are creating a very thin layer between the CA and the wood. It doesn't look bad - sort of has a semi-gloss feel. I just want my glass shine back.

I'll keep checking back to see if anyone has a tried and true method and I'll try what has been suggested. Thanks for all the input.

Martin

 

[toolcrazy]

Beautiful batch of pens.

 

[ldb2000]

Great looking pens Martin . Cloudy finishes are almost always moisture related , dull spots could be oils in the wood or areas that have an uneven absorption of CA .
DNA is one of the biggest causes of cloudy finishes or cloudy spots in a CA finish . A brand new can of DNA can be as much as 70% water and if the can has been open for any length of time that number can get considerably higher , even in a dry environment . If you have to wipe your blanks with anything , it's best to use acetone or CA accelerator instead of DNA . Also make sure to let the wood dry throughly before you continue finishing .
Dull spots due to oils in the wood or uneven absorption of the CA will require that you take the finish back down to clean wood since any oil on the surface will keep rising through the layers of CA or any spots that haven't been fully sealed will keep absorbing the CA unevenly and and the dull spots will reappear sometime down the road . With these woods it is usually best to seal the wood with several coats of thin CA sanding most of it off between coats until you have completely sealed the wood , then let the final coat dry for a couple of days before using your normal finishing technique .

 

[DCBluesman]

The pens really need to be refinished. Regardless of the reason, once the finish has lifted from the wood, it will not re-adhere. CA when fully cured is plastic. Period. There are no adhesion properties remaining.

Second, when using de-natured alcohol, be sure you are not using rubbing alcohol. They are not the same. Rubbing alcohol has water as one of its ingredients. You would be better off using Everclear or high quality moonshine.

Finally, DNA is a crapshoot. There is no standard formula in the U.S. In fact, there are many regulated formulas which can be found in the Code of Federal Regulations Title 27.

 

[BigguyZ]

You have come accross one of the many reasons that I'm nearly done with wood. I love it, but it's broken my heart too many times.

As a stop-gap measure, I've started to look specifically for stabilized woods when shopping, and I've done my best to stabilize nearly all of my wood blanks at home with a plexi-tone solution and alternating vacuum/ pressure.

I haven't had a chance to turn many of the blanks I've stabilized, so I'll have to follow up to tell you my results. But at th very least, I know I got good penetration and I don't see it hurting at all... Worth a shot, IMHO. If you have the setup, you could still try it with those blanks. take off the finish, and soak in a dillute plexitone solution (or just buy Minwax's wood hardener). The glue for the tubes may dissolve, just re-glue them.

 

[oxx44]

Absolutely stunning pens.

 

[witz1976]

+1 to what both Butch & Lou stated. I always seem (now I will be cursed:tongue to be able to get a very nice CA finish on oily woods as I wipe them multiple times with acetone to remove the oils. Then I apply my finish. I tried DNA once, now I use it to clean my tools :biggrin:...when ever I do it

 

[MartinPens]

solution

Great looking pens Martin . Cloudy finishes are almost always moisture related , dull spots could be oils in the wood or areas that have an uneven absorption of CA .
DNA is one of the biggest causes of cloudy finishes or cloudy spots in a CA finish . A brand new can of DNA can be as much as 70% water and if the can has been open for any length of time that number can get considerably higher , even in a dry environment . If you have to wipe your blanks with anything , it's best to use acetone or CA accelerator instead of DNA . Also make sure to let the wood dry throughly before you continue finishing .
Dull spots due to oils in the wood or uneven absorption of the CA will require that you take the finish back down to clean wood since any oil on the surface will keep rising through the layers of CA or any spots that haven't been fully sealed will keep absorbing the CA unevenly and and the dull spots will reappear sometime down the road . With these woods it is usually best to seal the wood with several coats of thin CA sanding most of it off between coats until you have completely sealed the wood , then let the final coat dry for a couple of days before using your normal finishing technique .

I'm glad I only wiped down my last one with DNA. I will be changing my technique and going with the thin CA as a method of sealing. Let it set (if I can be that patient) and then the final finish. Very helpful - thanks - I wasn't aware that DNA contained so much moisture. I have some ironwood and some Amboyna to try the new technique with. I usually never finish African Blackwood because of this problem. Thanks again.

Martin

 

[MartinPens]

acetone

+1 to what both Butch & Lou stated. I always seem (now I will be cursed:tongue to be able to get a very nice CA finish on oily woods as I wipe them multiple times with acetone to remove the oils. Then I apply my finish. I tried DNA once, now I use it to clean my tools :biggrin:...when ever I do it

I'll give the acetone a try as well. Thanks a lot.

Martin

 

[Pen&FishingCT]

i was having cludy spot due to the accelerator i was using. the blue spray bottle from woodcraft. the changed it to the same one but pump spray and the ca finish is like morror.no more cloudy spots.by the way,those pens are absolutely beautiful.
good luck.

 

[glen r]

Gorgeous pens. I too use acetone to wipe down any wood that I suspect may have moisture in it and so far its worked. I had a few instances where the finish looked like it lifted and had to be redone.

 

[PenMan1]

Martin:
Take that Damned DNA and put it in your first aid kit. Don't pull it out for anything except to sterilize a cut. By using DNA, you are ADDING moisture to your finish. IMHO, DNA should NEVER be used anywhere near wood, ESPECIALLY dry wood. Among the other 99 bad things alcohol does to wood, it raises the grain.

IF you can't get your hands on an aresol CA accelerator, acetone will do if there is nothing else available. Three coats of acetone, let it dry for 6 hours. Acetone is full of water too.

BLO is also a clouding agent for BOW, Amboyna, Cocobolo, et. al, so I would think twice about BLO in any finish with any oil in it.

Monty sells every kind of CA known to man. I use his medium (he has two curing time CA's) 300 for most everything I do. Thin doesn't give me the luster I desire, Thick will not fully cure quickly in Georgia humidity The "100" cure time is easier to work with, BUT the 300 is more forgiving.... espicially if you use Brasso, Flitz, Novous or Meguires Plastix over the top.

I try to NEVER use accelerator AFTER I have put any CA on the pen, but you will get 2,000 opinions on this one.

I hope this helps. BEAUTIFUL PENS.... Glad you got the package.